245
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
245 points (99.2% liked)
news
24484 readers
418 users here now
Welcome to c/news! We aim to foster a book-club type environment for discussion and critical analysis of the news. Our policy objectives are:
-
To learn about and discuss meaningful news, analysis and perspectives from around the world, with a focus on news outside the Anglosphere and beyond what is normally seen in corporate media (e.g. anti-imperialist, anti-Zionist, Marxist, Indigenous, LGBTQ, people of colour).
-
To encourage community members to contribute commentary and for others to thoughtfully engage with this material.
-
To support healthy and good faith discussion as comrades, sharpening our analytical skills and helping one another better understand geopolitics.
We ask community members to appreciate the uncertainty inherent in critical analysis of current events, the need to constantly learn, and take part in the community with humility. None of us are the One True Leftist, not even you, the reader.
Newcomm and Newsmega Rules:
The Hexbear Code of Conduct and Terms of Service apply here.
-
Link titles: Please use informative link titles. Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed.
-
Content warnings: Posts on the newscomm and top-level replies on the newsmega should use content warnings appropriately. Please be thoughtful about wording and triggers when describing awful things in post titles.
-
Fake news: No fake news posts ever, including April 1st. Deliberate fake news posting is a bannable offense. If you mistakenly post fake news the mod team may ask you to delete/modify the post or we may delete it ourselves.
-
Link sources: All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. If you are citing a Twitter post as news, please include the Xcancel.com (or another Nitter instance) or at least strip out identifier information from the twitter link. There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance, such as Libredirect or archive them as you would any other reactionary source.
-
Archive sites: We highly encourage use of non-paywalled archive sites (i.e. archive.is, web.archive.org, ghostarchive.org) so that links are widely accessible to the community and so that reactionary sources don’t derive data/ad revenue from Hexbear users. If you see a link without an archive link, please archive it yourself and add it to the thread, ask the OP to fix it, or report to mods. Including text of articles in threads is welcome.
-
Low effort material: Avoid memes/jokes/shitposts in newscomm posts and top-level replies to the newsmega. This kind of content is OK in post replies and in newsmega sub-threads. We encourage the community to balance their contribution of low effort material with effort posts, links to real news/analysis, and meaningful engagement with material posted in the community.
-
American politics: Discussion and effort posts on the (potential) material impacts of American electoral politics is welcome, but the never-ending circus of American Politics© Brought to You by Mountain Dew™ is not welcome. This refers to polling, pundit reactions, electoral horse races, rumors of who might run, etc.
-
Electoralism: Please try to avoid struggle sessions about the value of voting/taking part in the electoral system in the West. c/electoralism is right over there.
-
AI Slop: Don't post AI generated content. Posts about AI race/chip wars/data centers are fine.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Brother, total voter turnout in 2024 has nothing to do with who voted in 2020. Very cool that the total numbers you are using to draw your conclusion are close to the same, but they have no correlation with each other unless you are making the bold assumption that the same exact set of people showed up in 2020 and 2024 lmao
So yes, given this data it is entirely possible that people staying home because of Gaza mattered, though to be clear that was never a claim that I made. I said 2020 voters’ largest reason for staying home was Gaza.
Nothing? No, really. Nothing?
Sure was weird to spend so much effort looking at this particular group of people in the OP then. I think you're grasping at straws here.
I guess going from "The discussion is over." to "it is entirely possible" is progress of a sort.
Sure, it would make sense that you might think going from "The discussion is over." to "it is entirely possible" is progress of a sort. Of course, this is only if somewhere along the way you imagined me making the argument that this is what swung the election one way or the other, then in your own mind managed to successfully debate against the point I never made.
And for the statistics in question, yes, 2020 voter turnout really does have nothing to do with 2024 voter turnout in the argument you are making unless you are making the assumption that the same exact slate of people showed up for both elections.
Close to the same total number of people showing up ≠ the same exact group of people showed up +/- net difference
You cannot expect me to believe this schtick where you pretend this information doesn't belong in the context of the broader discussion about the outcome of the 2024 election. This is not a free floating factoid you happened to be interested in for the purely intellectual pursuit of understanding the motivations of Democratic voters. What is the importance of this information outside of that context?
If you’d stop reading into things I didn’t say, this whole discussion would have been much less frustrating for you. It’s literally in the title of my post. The top reason Biden 2020 voters sat out of the 2024 election was Gaza. Literally that is the point. The point is that it was actually a reason people chose not to vote.
I'm not frustrated, even slightly.
What discussion is over then? What is the purpose of bringing this up in all future elections, as the title directs me to do?
can you Indian number system
if Dem voters in 2024 are different from Dem voters in 2020, it means that Gaza turned people off yes, AND ALSO that something Kamala did BROUGHT IN ADDITIONAL VOTERS. MEANING THE NET LOSS IS ALMOST BREAKING EVEN.
So yes, you can consider them equivalent big picture. She lost a very small fraction of voters, which is irrelevant to the whole reason of why she lost.
Yes, it is entirely possible that policy on Palestine is irrelevant to the reason Kamala lost. Have you also considered that people showed up for other reasons that weren’t Palestine related at all?
Net change in vote between 2020 and 2024 means literally nothing here. It gives you no useful information other than comparing the vote totals. It does not tell you who did/did not vote and why, it tells you how many people did/did not vote.