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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
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None of the problems I've seen with vegans has been about the harm of the industry. We're all aware of exploitation. The issue arises around some posters making it a very personal, individual attack on others rather that seeing that diet is also a place where capitalism has wielded its force. Calling someone that is on your side politically on many of the issues of the day a blood mouth doesn't win allies
I'm just saying, you can be right about something but do it in a way where you alienate everyone.
Let's set aside the people that were going to rage at you for daring to exist, because they're not really who matter and you're not going to change their minds.
I mean yeah, maybe the bit account @Civility@hexbear.net does have some kernel of truth where being civil builds solidarity and wins people over and gets people to change instead of just screaming at them and then getting ignored.
looks at a clock. The numbers 1-12 are replaced with the words "STRUGGLE SESSION"
Good heavens, just look at the time
you brought up veganism in your original post you goofus jfc lol
That sounds a lot more like the libs who would rather attack their own comrades on main before retreating to c/vegan than do any real praxis
You clearly weren't here for the struggle session otherwise you would have seen the vegan side downplay the Holocaust, slavery and r*pe and you would have seen the week preceding the struggle session where they were all "dog diet" posting
Let's just say dog diet posting wasn't about feeding your dog a vegan diet, they also claimed it wasn't racist because it was started by an Asian guy as if that made any of it better. The cardinal sin was that the posting wasn't even funny or creative, it was just shock value garbage they used to bully the rest of the userbase and worst of all not one of them even made a single joke about eating Joe Biden's dogs, now that shit would have been funny
I have nothing against Vegans or Veganism but I was raised Vegan by stupid antivax hippy libs, the shitty diet I was raised on caused a bunch of health issues some of which I'm still dealing with to this day. I genuinely consider the diet I was raised on to be just as abusive (if not more so) than the lack of vaccination.
Any time I've posted anything about this the mods delete it and I've been cool with it but for some reason you guys just really want to restart this struggle session and if I need to post my fucking medical records to get the mods to believe I'm telling the truth about my lived experience and not trolling, so be it I'll dox myself if I have to
If any of you want to try to tell me that my dumbass parents are better communists than any of the so called carnists here just because they eat more beans, I might literally die laughing
I already got out of that cult, no amount of bullying will drag me back and I mean that literally, Veganism is a religion even if it isn't a very organized one
I think hexbear should be a welcoming and inviting place for vegan comrades, emphasis on comrades, but we shouldn't be a Vegan site any more than we should be a Christian site or a Muslim site
Expecting this to get deleted, can't say I care anymore
The sadest thing is, all I've ever wanted to do is help the Vegans of Hexbear. I have 2 decades of experience being Vegan, I know some of the pitfalls and I would love to share what I know but no one wants to hear it from a bloodmouth carnist traitor
Call me a lib if you like but I'll never be as much of an idealist or a lib as the folks who think that one scene from Scott Pilgrim was real
I may regret asking this, but what
CW: Struggle session, Rape, Holocaust,
spoiler
This is obviously contentious, but common Vegan arguments appeal to current treatment of animals as tantamount to the aforementioned things. The mass murder of animals, they say, is equivalent or worse than the holocaust given the sheer quantity and industrialized brutality of factory farming. They say that exploiting animals for labor or production is the equivalent of chattel slavery of people. They say that production of milk/cheese or other dairy products and the reproduction of animals for consumption in general depends upon forced fertilization, and is thus equivalent of rape.All of these arguments depend on believing animals are or at least should be treated as equivalent in moral standing to human beings. This is not a universal position, and one that can be incredibly offensive to people who are victims themselves or descended from victims of the aforementioned crimes. Jews don't like having their systematic extermination likened to the killing of animals because comparing us to animals to begin with was one of the justifications for our mass murder. Rape victims frequently feel that part of what makes their experience so uniquely awful is the disregard for their humanity and the complete objectification of their body for which they are synonymous with. Slavery is much the same, though with some importantly different factors that are beyond the conversation at hand.
Again, Vegans genuinely believe in good faith that animals ontologically have, or at least legally deserve, personhood. They don't make these comparisons maliciously, but I think they are missing their audience because they're not engaging at the level where disagreement actually occurs (whether both or either party is aware of it or not). People take offense to the arguments because they come off as minimalization of crimes against humans, they do not evoke the same level of outrage or sympathy as occurs in the mind of vegans. It's sad to watch unfold tbh.
For what it's worth, I do not think all animals deserve personhood. It may be circumstantially the right thing to do to be vegan given the myriad of factors (mass murder/torture of sentient creatures, persons or not; environmental cost; human toll on workers in the industry) but I do not share vegans ontological commitment to personhood for animals. This makes me more offended and less convinced by the above arguments, but I hope I've at least presented them charitably.