28
submitted 1 week ago by donuts@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

You might remember this post where I asked about how sorting by "Hot" gives you a lot of new posts that were posted in quick succession, making it look like "New".

I was recommend by a few to use "Scaled", so recently I did. Except this felt even worse: I saw new posts that were posted in succession with 0 upvotes, one having 1 upvote.

Isn't this weird? Or am I doing it wrong?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Bezier@suppo.fi 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Ranking:
Hot = Upvotes / Age
Scaled = Hot / Community size

Hpfanfiction must be a fresh community with no one joined yet and the creator posting a lot immediately. Alternatively, it just federated to LW.

On hot, I guess you managed to open it with the exact same second?

[-] donuts@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

But 0 upvotes divided by any age is still 0. So Hot = 0, and Scaled would then be 0 divided by community size, and therefore also still 0.

On hot, I guess you managed to open it with the exact same second?

It was in response to "Scaled is like Hot", so I wasn't looking at the Hot page at that moment, but I tried to convey how it doesn't make sense that a post with 0 upvotes get to the top of Scaled

[-] asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev 5 points 1 week ago

If you want a bit more detail, look at my edit. The functions to calculate the hot and scaled for content is now there.

[-] MHLoppy@fedia.io 4 points 1 week ago

You're making assumptions about how they work based on your intuition - luckily we don't need to do much guesswork about how the sorts are actually implemented because we can just look at the code to check:

CREATE FUNCTION r.scaled_rank (score numeric, published timestamp with time zone, interactions_month numeric)
    RETURNS double precision
    LANGUAGE sql
    IMMUTABLE PARALLEL SAFE
    -- Add 2 to avoid divide by zero errors
    -- Default for score = 1, active users = 1, and now, is (0.1728 / log(2 + 1)) = 0.3621
    -- There may need to be a scale factor multiplied to interactions_month, to make
    -- the log curve less pronounced. This can be tuned in the future.
    RETURN (
        r.hot_rank (score, published) / log(2 + interactions_month)
);

And since it relies on the hot_rank function:

CREATE FUNCTION r.hot_rank (score numeric, published timestamp with time zone)
    RETURNS double precision
    LANGUAGE sql
    IMMUTABLE PARALLEL SAFE RETURN
    -- after a week, it will default to 0.
    CASE WHEN (
now() - published) > '0 days'
        AND (
now() - published) < '7 days' THEN
        -- Use greatest(2,score), so that the hot_rank will be positive and not ignored.
        log (
            greatest (2, score + 2)) / power (((EXTRACT(EPOCH FROM (now() - published)) / 3600) + 2), 1.8)
    ELSE
        -- if the post is from the future, set hot score to 0. otherwise you can game the post to
        -- always be on top even with only 1 vote by setting it to the future
        0.0
    END;

So if there's no further changes made elsewhere in the code (which may not be true!), it appears that hot has no negative weighting for votes <2 because it uses the max value out of 2 and score + 2 in its calculation. If correct, those posts you're pointing out are essentially being ranked as if their voting score was 2, which I hope helps to explain things.


edit: while looking for the function someone else beat me to it and it looks like possibly the hot_rank function I posted may or may not be the current version but hopefully you get the idea regardless!

[-] donuts@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Thanks! That clears up a lot. Appreciate the paraphrasing too.

You're making assumptions about how they work based on your intuition

Small difference: I made the assumption that the simplified version was exactly how it works, as in, taking the comment at face value.

[-] MHLoppy@fedia.io 4 points 1 week ago

Fair enough - glad you've found it helpful (Y)

[-] Bezier@suppo.fi 4 points 1 week ago

It's a simplified version they had explained somewhere in the documentation. Details like that may be left out.

this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2025
28 points (93.8% liked)

Ask Lemmy

31250 readers
1414 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS