577

Dont Ever Listen To Those Who Claim "Voting is Pointless" (lemmy.ca)

submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

102 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 3 points 16 hours ago

They will with enough pressure. This negative attitude is useless.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 6 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Pressure as it "voting for other people" and "nationwide general strike" or pressure as in "Thoughts and prayers" online?

Because the first isn't going to happen, as evident by this election, and the second hasn't achieved anything so far, and will continue to achive nothing because it isn't actually pressure.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 7 points 13 hours ago

That's such a strawman as I have never said to "only vote." There are many things people can do to pressure the government.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works -1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

I didn't say you said to only vote. I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

So what do you propose we do that will convince the government to give up their power, short of voting them out or a general strike?

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

It worked in Quebec, the bloc supplanted the conservatives and liberals in many of their ridings. We need to have more regional parties and a larger push for proportional representation from the conservatives and liberals. Blue and Red are only so powerful thanks to our donations, volunteering and positive reinforcements. Take that away and they will be shells of their formerselves.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 hours ago

You do realize the block lost a third of their seats? The whole problem with the current system is that unless you can get the entirely country to simultaneously change who they back, you just further entrench whichever party is worse. Your solution boils down to, "Get people to support smaller parties instead." That doesn't work in a two party system, as evidenced by the current condition of our voting system, and by every other FPTP country out there.

The only way the current system changes is an organized, country-wide show of resistance that actually hurts the rich and powerful. This probably means a general strike. Unfortunately, people aren't going to be willing to rock the boat until things start to get unlivable, and by that point extremists and grifters will be firmly entrenched and will seize power instead.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

You can do both have a general strike and support smaller parties who are much more pro-union.

https://cupe.ca/our-election-system-unfair-we-can-make-it-better

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

My point is that neither of these methods work, because they require simultaneous support from large portions of the country. Canada is too complacent for that.

Even when it came to trying to prevent a Trump brown-noser from become Prime-Minister by putting an X on a peice of paper, we couldn't get 70% participation. Do you really think we can get even 10% of people to strike? Or like 50% of people to vote for small parties simultaneously?

Thats obviously not to say it isn't worth trying, but its absurd to expect results at this point. No one cares enough to force change.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 hours ago

You don't succeed the first time. That's why you adjust and try different methods.

No one cares enough to force change.

That's certainly not true as the canadians give the liberals a minority so they're forced to compromise with the smaller parties that's how we got universal heatlhcare.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

You're missing my point. Under FPTP, small parties are rapidly shrinking and losing power. Outside the two party system, only 30 seats are held currently (down from 59), and this will continue to shrink.

The only directly political way this will change is if BQ and NDP form an alliance to force election reform through. How likely do you really think that is, given their lack of action in the past?

Indirectly, you need en-masse, organized voting for small parties and or a massive, enconomy threatening strike. Neither is going to happen unless things get MUCH worse.

[-] jszym@cosocial.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

@PlzGivHugs @Sunshine The distortions of FPTP greatly serve the Bloc, so it is doubtful they'd join in. E.g. in this election BQ and NDP received about 6% of the vote but got 22 and 7 seats, respectively.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago

Eh the smaller parties didn't resonate with people so much this time around and we were closer to a 2-party state in the past. I mean we had the unionist party supplant the conservatives and liberals during ww1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Canadian_federal_election

Being negative is cheap and doesn't inspire anyone. That's what the powerful few want. I want to hear solutions not complaining.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 hours ago

Eh the smaller parties didn't resonate with people so much this time around and we were closer to a 2-party state in the past. I mean we had the unionist party supplant the conservatives and liberals during ww1.

I mean, a World War and the resulting turmoil probably would be enough to dislodge the conservatives today. Thats exactly the sort of "MUCH worse" I was talking about.

Being negative is cheap and doesn't inspire anyone. That's what the powerful few want. I want to hear solutions not complaining.

No, but neither does lying. Saying "Just support the small parties more" isn't a realistic fix in our current system, nor does any other, "sit at home and hope things improve strategy." Large scale organization is needed, and letting people think it'll get better with their inaction only helps the established parties too.

The only way it'll get better is if people get angry and force the government to listen - look at any rights movement ever. Lying to people won't get them off their asses. What might, is the realization that things will keep getting worse unless they actually step-up and start organizing.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Of course you claim in bad faith that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "just sitting at home and not doing anything"

Stop it with the strawmans.

Your negativity isn't going work in getting people out at the streets protesting more. I'm not going to let 2 corporate political parties continue to whip their mps to "play along or else" go unchallenged as that would be way worse for the working class of this country in the long run.

We need to push for:

Political party diversity
Unions
Cooperatives
Small grocers
Green Credit Unions
Proportional Representation
Independent Media Outlets
Public Transit
Tenants Unions
Government officials to use the fediverse
Protections for marginalized people
Financial contributions limited at $100 per year.

[-] walktheplank@lemmy.world 6 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

And that pressure comes from the citizens who never put pressure on. I live in a fascist government situation in Canada simply because I am disabled. But people like you would tell me to stop complaining that at least I have some support. I have chased my MP to no effect or response at all. I have done the same with my MLA. I have educated my fellow Canadians. I have ranted and raved for decades and protested about how we are treated as second class citizens and you all are not standing up for us. None of you. I'm purple in the face from screaming into the void.

You expect people to stand up for you? You're delusional. My experiences at the bottom of Canadian society tell me otherwise.