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Dont Ever Listen To Those Who Claim "Voting is Pointless" (lemmy.ca)

submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 8 points 21 hours ago

That's such a strawman as I have never said to "only vote." There are many things people can do to pressure the government.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I didn't say you said to only vote. I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

So what do you propose we do that will convince the government to give up their power, short of voting them out or a general strike?

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.

It worked in Quebec, the bloc supplanted the conservatives and liberals in many of their ridings. We need to have more regional parties and a larger push for proportional representation from the conservatives and liberals. Blue and Red are only so powerful thanks to our donations, volunteering and positive reinforcements. Take that away and they will be shells of their formerselves.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 2 points 19 hours ago

You do realize the block lost a third of their seats? The whole problem with the current system is that unless you can get the entirely country to simultaneously change who they back, you just further entrench whichever party is worse. Your solution boils down to, "Get people to support smaller parties instead." That doesn't work in a two party system, as evidenced by the current condition of our voting system, and by every other FPTP country out there.

The only way the current system changes is an organized, country-wide show of resistance that actually hurts the rich and powerful. This probably means a general strike. Unfortunately, people aren't going to be willing to rock the boat until things start to get unlivable, and by that point extremists and grifters will be firmly entrenched and will seize power instead.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 3 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

You can do both have a general strike and support smaller parties who are much more pro-union.

https://cupe.ca/our-election-system-unfair-we-can-make-it-better

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

My point is that neither of these methods work, because they require simultaneous support from large portions of the country. Canada is too complacent for that.

Even when it came to trying to prevent a Trump brown-noser from become Prime-Minister by putting an X on a peice of paper, we couldn't get 70% participation. Do you really think we can get even 10% of people to strike? Or like 50% of people to vote for small parties simultaneously?

Thats obviously not to say it isn't worth trying, but its absurd to expect results at this point. No one cares enough to force change.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 18 hours ago

You don't succeed the first time. That's why you adjust and try different methods.

No one cares enough to force change.

That's certainly not true as the canadians give the liberals a minority so they're forced to compromise with the smaller parties that's how we got universal heatlhcare.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

You're missing my point. Under FPTP, small parties are rapidly shrinking and losing power. Outside the two party system, only 30 seats are held currently (down from 59), and this will continue to shrink.

The only directly political way this will change is if BQ and NDP form an alliance to force election reform through. How likely do you really think that is, given their lack of action in the past?

Indirectly, you need en-masse, organized voting for small parties and or a massive, enconomy threatening strike. Neither is going to happen unless things get MUCH worse.

[-] jszym@cosocial.ca 2 points 10 hours ago

@PlzGivHugs @Sunshine The distortions of FPTP greatly serve the Bloc, so it is doubtful they'd join in. E.g. in this election BQ and NDP received about 6% of the vote but got 22 and 7 seats, respectively.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 13 hours ago

Eh the smaller parties didn't resonate with people so much this time around and we were closer to a 2-party state in the past. I mean we had the unionist party supplant the conservatives and liberals during ww1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Canadian_federal_election

Being negative is cheap and doesn't inspire anyone. That's what the powerful few want. I want to hear solutions not complaining.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works -1 points 13 hours ago

Eh the smaller parties didn't resonate with people so much this time around and we were closer to a 2-party state in the past. I mean we had the unionist party supplant the conservatives and liberals during ww1.

I mean, a World War and the resulting turmoil probably would be enough to dislodge the conservatives today. Thats exactly the sort of "MUCH worse" I was talking about.

Being negative is cheap and doesn't inspire anyone. That's what the powerful few want. I want to hear solutions not complaining.

No, but neither does lying. Saying "Just support the small parties more" isn't a realistic fix in our current system, nor does any other, "sit at home and hope things improve strategy." Large scale organization is needed, and letting people think it'll get better with their inaction only helps the established parties too.

The only way it'll get better is if people get angry and force the government to listen - look at any rights movement ever. Lying to people won't get them off their asses. What might, is the realization that things will keep getting worse unless they actually step-up and start organizing.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 2 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Of course you claim in bad faith that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "just sitting at home and not doing anything"

It’s going to be a a lot harder to force the 2 political parties to give workers their fair share when all it takes for the corporations is to entice the 2 leaders to do their bidding by having them whip their MPs to vote along the party line. However with multiple political parties it gives the MPs much more leeway to stand up for their constituents as the conservatives and liberals would have a lot less control over the amount of power the governments holds and the MPs would always have the option cross the floor into the smaller parties to keep the party leaders in check.

Stop it with the strawmans. You just keep doubling down and tripling down your point acting like you know everything without even listening to the other person. You never attempted to find common ground but to complain and double on the arrogance. I’m not engaging with this sealioning.

Your negativity isn't going work in getting people out at the streets protesting more. Again I'm not going to let 2 corporate political parties continue to whip their mps to "play along or else" go unchallenged as that would be way worse for the working class of this country in the long run.

We need to push for: