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Pope Francis was a great Christian pastor
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2025
166 points (95.6% liked)
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Can someone explain for the non-religious folk?
Calling someone a “pastor” is a Protestant thing. You wouldn’t hear a Catholic call The Pope a pastor.
Vance, like a lot of tradcaths, is LARPing because the rituals look cool. Sorta like how Andrew Tate is a “Muslim” because he thinks it’s all about controlling women, but at the same time unabashedly drinks in public.
Like not all Catholics are obsessed with the Pope, but like I have merch of the man from my Vatican visit. I have some conservative Catholic family critical of the Pope’s more progressive views, but they would never talk like this.
Thanks!
Thanks for nothing. There are endless catholic bishops using the term pastor. See my other posts.
Oh that's funny. Thanks for the correction, then!
Pastor as a job title is specific to some denominations but the metaphor of a pastor tending his flock is common in all denominations. The roots of all Abrahamic faiths are the Jewish peoples who were largely herders in ancient times.
JFC who's upvoting this nonsense? Are bishops catholic enough for you?
The first headline: “Global pastor: In word and deed, pope preached mercy, outreach”
Not “a pastor.” Emphasizing global.
That second article, the journalist is the one using the term “pastor.” It does not appear in quotes.
Third one is closest to your point, but again the wording is very difference from Vance.
It’s kinda strange how eager some of y’all are to defend Vance from the allegation of speaking in a weird and off putting way.
Edit: Let’s try phone a friend (lapsed Catholic, invited me to services a few times for the sit kneel stand routine. The open air service I attended at the Vatican itself felt more Christlike to me, tbh)
These people who have obviously never been Catholic are really down on the whole "Catholics use Father and Pastor interchangeably" thing lol. This is crazy. A Catholic wouldn't address their priest as "Pastor" holy shit.
I thought I was taking crazy pills. I grew up Catholic and the sentence gave me such a weird creeped-out feeling.
This is cultural uncanny valley.
No, it's almost always "Father."
Average Internet forum experience—saying something true but downvoted because it was said opposition to a popular view
"Pastor" is the term for the person that leads a church / church congregation. The general ranking of the hierarchy is:
J.D. Vance is Catholic, and referred to the Pope as a 'pastor'. This would be like somebody saying "(insert American President) was a good mayor".
unless
Yea yea there's some schismatics out there that claim to be the "actual" pope but there hasn't really been an anti-pope since 1449.
But there was pope emeritus
"Pastor" is a Latin word that means shepherd. Francis would appreciate the title of pastor, because for his entire papacy he put the pastoral concerns of guiding the congregation before theology and nearly any other concern the church might have.
I think pastor is for the Protestants.
I'm assuming priest orr something similar. Please understand I am also non-religious. So I'm basically just guessing
OP seems to not understand that the pastoral metaphor is common to all christianity because they are focused on “pastor” as a title. The job title of “pastor” is used by specific protestant denominations but the overarching metaphor of the faithful being a flock of sheep that God/Jesus/the faith tends to is common.
No - it’s more that this isn’t the way that Catholics talk, because Vance doesn’t give a shit about Catholicism and is only one because he thinks it gives him street cred.
Compelling testimony. He’s very aligned with the intellectualism of his patron Saint.
I totally believe he had an angry atheist Richard Dawkins phase.
I feel that. I think it was a phase I needed, but man was some of it cringe. Chill, relaxed, "you do you, I'll do me," Atheism is soooo much better.
Apatheism is where it's at.
Eh, I'm not apatheist. I do actively believe there is no god. It's just not a big deal to me.
Are you joking or have you literally never stepped foot in any Roman Catholic space? The pastoral metaphor is common to pretty much every major branch of the faith.
Vance is attached to the “Rationalists” (note the capital “R” because it is a philosophy that isn’t rational) and absolutely was an edge lord regardless the phrase he used is entirely acceptable.
Nope, never.
Then. how have you never heard or seen this metaphor before? It’s incredibly commonplace
I have heard the metaphor. It’s not a term someone would use to describe the pope. It would make sense if he was referring to his local parish’s pastor. It does not make any sense for a Catholic to describe the pope this way.
He does not talk like any Catholic I have known. I have family who are Irish Catholics who attend regularly. I have a dear friend who was really wrestling with his faith and sexuality, who chose St Francis as his patron and was a lot more eloquent than this shit. I have had discussions with actual trad caths. The person who gave me a tour of the Vatican worked for the Vatican.
The way Vance is talking is off putting and weird, and along with basically everything else about him, indicates that he doesn’t give a shit about the religion or its beliefs. He’s like a 4chan asshole who converts because they like posting Deus Vult and “Remove Kebab” memes. Aesthetic, not substance.
Yes, it is. He is the pastor to the entire Roman Catholic faith. It's kind of awkward but not out of line like if he had called him a bishop or Imam.
OK? What does that mean? Heck are they Catholics from Ireland or American Roman Catholics whose ancestors cane from Ireland? What significance should this be assigned if none are clergy?
You know diaspora is a thing, and a lot of Irish American families identify specifically as Irish Catholics?
Also had a buddy that was actually from Ireland and raised Catholic. He was a pretty vocal atheist but also hooked me onto how lit Sinn Fein is.
I do know some Americans call themselves Irish, if I did not why would I ask that question to begin with?
Regardless, what special status do you think being Irish grants when it comes to Roman Catholicism? It isn’t as if that nation understands their faith better than others do yet you specifically cite them, why? American Roman Catholics are not any different in this regard.
I don’t think your Irish or “Irish” family are authorities on this subject.
Am I claiming a special status here?
My claim is that he doesn’t sound like Catholics I have known, specifically the family members I have who have specific ties to both Irishness and Catholicism and identify with both, as do many members of the diaspora. (From my buddies stories about seeing things like “kill all taigs” graffiti growing up - I think there’s maybe something special about being an Irish Catholic that might merit being called an “Irish Catholic” rather than a regular one. Do the Polish American Catholics in Chicago worship at the same parishes as the Irish American ones?)
You’re kinda galloping all over the place looking for a point to make.
Yes you are when you specifically mention devout Irish Catholics as support for your claim. They do not have any expertise and that wouldn’t transfer if they do. In fact there’s a strong argument that the Irish church is the branch that has the worst grasp on the faith.
The point has been the sane consistently and it’s that Vance’s wording is fine. The Pope is a pastor to the flock. The fact your family doesn’t use the phrase is meaningless