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this post was submitted on 12 May 2025
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Asklemmy
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Ukraine population: overwhelmingly supports trade with eu.
You: CIA backed color revolution!
Russian soldiers: taking geotagged selfies in Ukraine by the dozen, revealing overwhelming Russian military involvement in 2014.
You: Nuuu, putin wouwd nevewww ๐๐
It's a really convenient narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let's take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here's how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Either you're intentionally spreading misinformation here, or you're far too ignorant to discuss the subject you're attempting to debate here.
Reality is whatever I want it to be
"Suppressing descent is fine if you claim the population 'overwhelmingly supports' you"
Why even bother with elections at that point? Just claim anybody who wouldn't vote for you is a RuSsIaN AgEnT
Support for eu trade was high enough that yanukovych campaigned on it. Are you saying that's not true?
Also are you saying contracted Russian soldiers weren't in luhansk and donetsk in 2014 and onward?
"Yanukoviych ran on trade with EU, therefor it's OK to violently suppress dissent" is certainly a take.
"Are you saying there aren't communist spies in America?" -SkyezOpen defending McCarthyism.
Misrepresenting my stance and refusing to engage with the points isn't the win you think it is.
Just because it's not framed in the most generous possible way doesn't make it a misrepresentation
Lol, who was it that taught shitlibs like you that anyone not immediately agreeing with them is equivalent to "refusing to engage with the points". I engaged with your points just fine, they're just bad points.
Mccarthyism is accusing with little or no evidence. There's piles of evidence of Russian involvement. Hand waving doesn't make it disappear.
There's piles of evidence of communist spies operating in America during the cold war too, mate.
So you're saying it's all fake?
Are you saying there were no communist spies in the US during the cold war?
Are you allergic to making hard statements? You accused me of mccarthyism, which involves accusing people with little to no evidence. There is evidence of 6,000+ Russian regulars in Ukraine in 2014. That's not "dissent," it's an invasion. I'm not saying there weren't genuine separatists in those regions, I'm saying it was hardly an organic movement.
"there were Russian operatives in Ukraine, therefore all dissent is illegitimate and can be crushed with lethal force."
If you can't understand how that is the same as justifying McCarthyism by saying their were communist spies in America, it's because you're being willfully obtuse.