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Liberalism is when you believe in voting against fascism to lessen the burdens on engaging in actual leftist action, I guess.
Extremely dire turbolib statement here, RIP
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this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.
Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.
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"not cutting corners for liberals"
What corners are cut by casting a vote, again?
Like, this isn't me saying "ANARCHISTS ARE BAD FOR MUTUAL AID" or "ANARCHISTS CAN'T CRITICIZE LIBERALS"
This was me arguing that harm reduction is not morally optionally, and then getting banned from an anarchist comm for it - with the justification, as mentioned by DB0, that 'harm reduction' was itself inherently reactionary and anti-anarchist, despite harm reduction being an anarchist concept to begin with.
A lot. A leftcom told me this once:
Voting for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people is not good. This isn’t a “lesser evil” thing, this is supporting a genocide we can both agree with. In Nazi Germany, there is no corner to be cut by not being against Nazi Germany, because that’s genocide. The same can be said for voting for liberals, what is the difference between you and a Zionist liberal if you’re voting and advocating for them? Sure, you may think differently and know that the Palestinian people are being genocided, however you still support the people who do that.
I’m not gonna hold and punches, you’re a liberal in practice. Read theory as much as you want, as long as you vote for genocide, you vote for genocide.
Thank you, that explains so much. /s
Cool. Deciding that you'd prefer more support to go to genocidaires, instead of less support, is not good. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it's much more clearly horrific than whatever weird spiritualist view of the ballot box you have.
This is, and I mean this in the most literal sense, incoherent.
Apologies if it is, I’m sleep deprived and just spitting my thoughts about this while getting a good chuckle.
What I mean is in the same way you cannot be on the side of the Nazis in the 1940s, you cannot be on the side of Israel and supporting the Zionist cause.
As previously stated, I won’t engage in bad faith arguments like
Once again, sleep well.
I'm not on the side of Israel and supporting the Zionist cause. But when there are two options, you pick the less bad of the two. It's not fucking rocket science.
The Soviets in WW2 were committing genocide. Yet the question of winning the Second World War depended on cooperation with the Soviets.
With the same mindset that supporting literal genocidaires - the Soviets - was necessary to stop a worse outcome - the Nazis - so too was this past election. We had our choice of supporting the liberal coalition candidate, or the fascist coalition candidate. And all too many people decided they'd sooner see the Nazis win than side with genocidaires - despite the fact that siding 'against' the genocidaires did nothing to actually reduce the genocide being done - and, in fact, actually intensified the genocide you were supposedly protesting against.
Harm reduction is an explicit rejection of the idea that, in a tight situation, supporting the less-bad option is dedication to their cause. It is only supporting the less-bad option being the one to result. A vote takes, for most, an hour of your time, twice every two years. Most people spend more time fucking jacking off. If that's too much strain for you to save the lives of literal millions, you're a fucking LARPer, not someone who's interested in the welfare of marginalized groups oppressed by state power.
But if you're more interested in spiritualist, self-centered interpretations of politics, rather than political action as a way of improving lives and reducing harm, well, that kind of LARPers mindset is naturally geared against that very simple idea that a vote isn't a love letter. Who cares about outcomes? You have to keep your internal karma meter positive, or some stupid shit like that.
Sorry that you think inaction in support of the worse option is absolution?
I love how you have framed a relationship between two allies of neccessity who were in the wake of a world war going to become superpowers as if it is equitable to a client state of a superpower committing genocide on its peoples internally while the superpower handed them essentially unlimited weapons and ran diplomatic cover for it while pretending to try to stop it.
You are clearly in denial and it shows.
The Palestinian Genocide is not a war, it is a genocide.
I'm sorry, is there something wrong with framing WW2 as dependent on the cooperation of the Western Allies with the Soviets?
... no, genius. I'm comparing siding with genocidal liberals against fascists to siding with genocidal Soviets against fascists.
Try rereading it.
I'm sorry, where do you think I said otherwise?
Fuck's sake. I literally and explicitly called the current liberal position as supporting genocide.
Do you just... make up shit in your head instead of reading whatever it is you're supposedly replying to?
I did and it just made less sense in terms of constructing a coherent intellectual argument.
Okay, buddy.