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Not long now (lemmy.ml)
submitted 3 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Thanks! And gotcha. I think I follow what you're trying to say. Personally, I don't really agree that Capitalism's resiliance disproves dialectics. Imperialism is not distinct from Capitalism, as an example, it's Capitalism at its latest stages, when Capital must move outward or die. This exports the worst of contradictions to the Global South, but doesn't perpetuate Capitalism, it's a temporary stop-gap. Crisis still rocks the Capitalist system, concentration continues in fewer and fewer hands, and the proletariat continues to swell in ratio compared to the Bourgeoisie. As Imperialism is fought against, this brings the disparity back to the Imperial core (Burkina Faso kicking France out, for example).

The dialectic still moves forward in all of this. In all this time, there's still movement, there's still increasing disparity, there's still drive for revolution. Marx was wrong in that he thought revolution would come to the developed countries first, but Marxists like Lenin and Fanon analyzed why that didn't happen, and it was because Imperialism is that final delay. Dialectics continues to be at play, but the primary contradiction is Imperialism, not an individual nations' class struggle. Ie, Burkina Faso's number one contradiction is combatting Imperialism, not resolving internal class conflict, same with the US, where the proletariat largely wishes to continue Imperialism over changing the entire system.

I think, as far as countries like the USSR, PRC, Cuba, etc are concerned, they are examples of Marxist Socialism. You don't have to agree with that as a form of socialism you agree with, but I don't agree with rejecting Marxism as validly Socialist. I personally don't agree with Anarchism, as an example, but I acknowledge it as a form of Socialism as well, and that's good enough for left unity IMO. I say they follow Marxism, as all are examples of societies where the State is governed by the proletariat, and the large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned and thus the proletariat is in control of the government and economy.

Either way, to return, adaptation is a form of dialectics in action. Dialectics doesn't mean entire systems can only change into new entire systems, but that everything is in a constant stream of change, inwardly propelled. Systems like the welfare safety net don't resolve class contradictions, they delay revolution at the expense of, usually, lower super-profits from Imperialism.

[-] SnokenKeekaGuard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 8 hours ago

No I'm not claiming capitalism disproves dialectics, but perverts it. A pest that resists larger historical changes for very long stretches.

All dialectic movement is contained within the system and not breaking through.

I do like the idea of Lenin in regards to revolution. Hadn't heard of this before.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 7 hours ago

All systems change, Capitalism doesn't "pervert" dialectics any more than feudalism did. It isn't perversion so much as it is the progression of dialectics, this is why Marxists describe the dialectical movement as endless spirals. All systems resist the next stage in development, in fact Capitalism is quite a young system in comparison to how long feudalism lasted.

As for Imperialism, I recommend you read Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism. In it, Lenin describes how Capitalism has grown and morphed since the time of Marx, who didn't live long enough to see Imperialism really become the dominant contradiction upon which all other contradictions rest in the modern world.

this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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