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this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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I am pretty sure there is some financial fuckery going on with BYD. My parents own two, and they are very nice, but way under priced compared to every other EV manufacturer.
Can't prove anything of course, but there is something odd going on when everyone else is 20-30k more expensive.
Hard to feel sorry for GM though, they suckled at our governments (Australia) teet for decades before giving up and leaving entirely. At least if BYD is being propped up we are at least getting good cheap cars from it.
The financial fuckery is that they're very heavily subsidized by the CCP. It's not sustainable.
I'd argue it is.
Just look how Amazon got where it is now: Sell way under market price, till local competition closed shop, then squeeze.
It's unsustainable to keep prices lower than costs. The Amazon example didn't have low prices forever.
Yes, I know. That's why BYD is going to
then squeezethe customers once they are locked in.Thus, not sustainable, as I said.
It worked for Wal-Mart
Which isn't really a sustainable business model, but it's quite successful
What is sustainable in today's economy?
Really, what Western corporation actually base their policies on sustainable growth?
Take your time. I'll wait.
...
All of them that I know of. Which corporations do you see running unsustainable business models until they fold completely? Take your time, I'll wait.
The point is that they eventually change their tactics. In this case, they'll have to eventually increase their prices.
Even big companies ran gigantic losses for years, just to undercut the competition and emerge as the only winner.
Some do it because they have other cash cows Epic store milking Fortnite), others have VC funding, like Uber.
You forgot the part where they raised prices on everything.
https://feddit.org/comment/7714367
BYD is already facing scrutiny for running Evergrande like accounting, and a lot of political pressures from other Chinese manufacturers. The risk is that they collapse like Evergrande, and that they drag public debt into it. The CCP might prop them up, so it light be safe. A car is different from a book, because you need lifetime service for it. If they go under, you might lose access to parts.
It might just be that, since BYD is serving such a large domestic market/population, that allows them to have cheaper cars? Something something, economies of scale. I'm no expert though.
I think your muddying sustainable and successful. It definitely can be successful, but its not sustainable.
Its also high risk, especially if you can't crank up the prices enough later
https://feddit.org/comment/7714367
Sustainable implies that they can keep doing it forever without changing. Switching later means what they are doing is not sustainable. It might be successful, but its not sustainable.
While they are subsidised, the Chinese are really good at low cost manufacturing. It’s not the cheap labour anymore but factory automation and robotics. They really outclass anyone else.
They're not "good" at it, they just have no minimum wage and no semblance of annoying things like worker protections or unions to be concerned with.
They actually have a problem with workers or the lack of them and they have invested heavily in robotics. They aren’t the China of the 70s and 90s. It’s really something that we need to face up to if we want to compete but our political class isn’t really ready for that sort of reality. Years behind because of smugness.
China doesn't have a national minimum wage, but minimum wage is delegated to the local level there and definitely exists in every single province. Just echoing what the other user said, literally everything you said here is easily disprovable. https://www.china-briefing.com/news/minimum-wages-China/
Glad you learned something!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttu55nEtC6o - How BYD overtook Tesla?
Brazil shuts BYD factory site over 'slavery' conditions
From 2016 and still true today:
Chinese Government Subsidies Play Major Part In Electric Car Maker BYD's Rise
Yeah, subsidies and other benefits from governments exist but China is going all in.
My only point of confusion is that a 20k loss on every car is insane. I'm guessing its a bit of BYD is subsidised somewhat, and everyone else is price gouging somewhat. No idea the ratio.
Also odd that other Chinese brands (really only tried MG) dont seem to have the same high quality, high pricing that suggests the same level of crazy subsidies.
Honestly, there is just so much fuckery going I just have no idea what is what.
China subsidises industries it wants to dominate in, allowing them to sell for less than cost. It's why the EU also tariffs Chinese cars.
Also for anything the big 3 make in the US, I believe they use union labor? Not sure if they did for Aussie market cars.