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[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Needless to say, at 19,000 Kelvin, the solid gold sample blew past that boundary, heating up to more than 14 times its melting point, which is about 1,300 Kelvin. The team suggests the speed of the heating likely kept the gold from expanding. They blasted the gold to its record-setting temperature in just 45 femtoseconds, or 45 millionths of a billionth of a second.

“The thing that’s intriguing here is to ask the question of whether or not it’s possible to beat virtually all of thermodynamics, just by being quick enough so that thermodynamics doesn’t really apply in the sense that you might think about it

The team notes that the second law of thermodynamics, which states that disorder increases with time, still stands—their work did not disprove it. That’s because the gold atoms reached their extreme temperature before they had time to become disordered, White tells Nature’s Dan Garisto.

Even still, researchers are now faced with a question they had considered all but completely solved nearly four decades ago, per New Scientist: How hot can something really get before it melts? If a material is heated quickly enough, there might be no limit, per the SLAC statement.

Sort of reminds me of the energy-time version uncertainty principle: if an interval is short enough, energy fluctuations can be extremely high.

What I'd like to know here is what the duration threshold to would allow fusion to start is.

[-] Wigners_friend@piefed.social -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Energy-time relations have no link to the uncertainty principle. They apply to classical cameras for instance. There are no "energy fluctuations", you cannot magically get energy from nothing as long as you give it back quickly, like some kind of loan.

This is because the energy-time relation works for particular kinds of time, like lifetime of excitations or shutter times on cameras. Not just any time coordinate value.

Edit: down votes from the scientifically illiterate are fun. Let's not listen to a domain expert, let's quote wiki and wallow in collective ignorance.

[-] gbzm@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

Whether it's energy-time or position-momentum, the uncertainty principle is just a consequence of two variables being linked via Fourier transform. So position and wave-vector therefore position and momentum, ans time and pulse and therefore time and energy. Sure, it only has consequences when you're looking at time uncertainties and probabilistic durations, which is less common than space distributions. And sure it also happens in classical optics, that's where all of this comes from. And I agree that "quantum fluctuations" is often a weird misleading term to talk about uncertainties. But I'm not sure how you end up with "no link to the uncertainty principle"? It's literally the same relation between intervals in direct or Fourier space.

[-] Wigners_friend@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Okay, explain to me what the standard deviation of time is. I will pre-empt nonsense, just "time", not just time in reference to the duration of a finite process. It must be abstract and universal, like the position-momentum case.

[-] gbzm@piefed.social 1 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 12 minutes ago)

You know maybe I'm starting to understand your point.

On the surface your question is easy to answer: clock uncertainties are a thing, and are very analogous to space-position uncertainty. Also time-of-arrival is a question that you can pretty much always ask, and it's precisely the "uncertain t for given x" to the usual "uncertain x for given t". Conversely you don't have the standard deviation of "just space": as universal as it is, Delta x is always incarnated as some well-defined space variable in each setting.

But it's also true that clock and time-of-arrival uncertainties are not what's usually meant in the time-energy relation: in general it's a mean duration (rather than a standard deviation) linked to a spectral width. And it does make sense, because quantum mechanics are all about probability densities in space propagating in a well-parametrized time. So Fourier on space=>uncertainties while Fourier on time=>actual duration/frequency. And if you go deeper than that, I'm used to thinking of the uncertainty principle in terms of Fourier because of the usual Delta x Delta p > 1/2 formulation, but for the full-blown Heisenberg-y formula you need operators, and you don't have a generally defined time operator of the standard QM because of Pauli's argument.

But that's a whole thing in and of itself, because now I'm wondering about time of arrival operators, quantum clocks and their observables, and is Pauli's argument as solid as that since people do be defining time operators now and it's quite fun, so thanks for that.

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