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this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2025
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Asklemmy
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Your comment reminded me of this Rosa quote:
I live in the US, I don't see the reason to demonize its enemies on the other side of the planet when my class enemies are right here running the US government and its associated political parties.
I don't see reason to demonize people at all not Americans not Chinese.
We should be in solidarity with everyone from the working class, no matter his or her place of birth.
Fighting for the working class always means fighting against oppressors.
In the historical period we live in us is the worst of them, but that doesn't make other ones good.
Freedom of minorities, press, and assembly are under atack nearly everywhere, in the us in the EU, in China and in Russia - but those are tools the working class needs to build a better system.
Bravo, you checked that the us government system has major flaws, may critically look at there enemies, for they are not even close to the ideals they pretend following.
Demonizing doesn't help, but idolizing also doesn't.
May try to fight for the people, not for the powerfull.
There is no system existing on this planet at the moment which will do that for you. Simping for one or the other oppressor doesn't cut it, even if some are better then others, you need to fight for the people, not the powerful.
The way to fight for the people isn't by going along with 100% of US propaganda about its state enemies.
Do you think that I should be taking a German fundamentalist 'on a mission from god' against china and communism as an authority on the oppression there when he doesn't even speak the language and routinely fabricates evidence?
No?
Who are you citing then? Which accusations from the West against China do you not believe? Are there any?
I was referring to Adrian zenz, that guy seems to pop up in literally every western accusation about China at this point.
The most recent example being him as a 'fluent' mandarin speaker hearing the word “满勤奖” or 'full attendance award' from a recording in a factory and intentionally misrepresenting it as “Xinjiang.” That was then the basis for then claiming that there was evidence of forced labor in Xinjiang.
Ok
You know his work though, quoting you:
I found out about Adrian Zenz because he was showing up in every source whenever I tried to look into accusations about how "China masacered the Uigurs"[sic].
Maybe you should look into where information is coming from before citing it as provable fact.
edit: someone even directly replied to you asking you for a source other than him over two years ago
You misquote me -.-
In the mentioned post i was giving examples of verifiable and falsefiable claims.
The point is that those are statements which (given enough time and info) can be proben right of wrong, while statements like "Einstein was wrong" "stalin was right" are not, because they are too broad and don't have a definitive and absolute binary "true" or "false" category.
This discussion is a waste of time
You gave that as an example of a provable claim. We can clearly see proof of 'Israel' massacring Palestinians, and have had new evidence appearing every day of the occupation.
Do you have any proof of your claim that doesn't come exclusively filtered through a right wing fundamentalist?
The working class of the PRC is the class in power! This is chauvanism, why on Earth do you get to say that the working class needs to overthrow the socialist system they support? This is a deeply western viewpoint you have, the Chinese working class already overthrew their oppressors last century.
What's your point, exactly? Is this just an unrelated jab at the DPRK? Are you saying people can only support their governments if they are brainwashed? Brainwashing doesn't even exist, it was a concept invented by the west to explain why citizens of socialist countries support their system, which they failed to replicate with MKUltra:
Ultimately, polling in support of the PRC is extremely consistent, even when taken from western orgs.
You don't appear to have any point supported by data, just failed Cold War conspiracy theories.
Haha, where did you get brainwashing from? I would trust polling from the notorious big-brother state of China about as much as from Russia or NK, that is to say, not much at all.
Because this is western polling in China, for one, and for two, the west is also made up of "big brother states."
Doesn't make much difference if it's a western poll, the respondents are still in China (correct me if I'm wrong).
I wouldn't trust the response from someone in Moscow being interviewed by some western news media either.
The west is also spying on their own citizens but are obviously not repressing dissent like the three mentioned countries.
"There is literally no type of evidence I will accept to say I am wrong"
Then fuck off maybe? Shut the fuck up?
Does it make you feel powerful to be rude to other people?
You're not forced to read what I write, you can just leave you know
I feel frustration and annoyance watching people argue in bad faith which is then relieved by yelling at them over it
it's not like my criticism is lacking substance.
“What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy”. From Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts & Reds:
Those who do not move, do not notice their chains. — Rosa Luxemburg
Often we can say whatever we want in the West because often our voices have virtually no political power[1][2], and yet we are silenced & repressed, sometimes violently.
Just look at this very moment to those speaking out against the genocide of Palestinians that is supported by Western governments. Look at the German government’s repression and arrests, for one.
I could go on for hours with examples over the last century, including a list of assassinations by Western states of their own people for speaking out.
Alright, may I ask if you'd trust a poll of North Koreans to be truthful?
I've already asked another commenter this but it's valid here too: Would you class the western oppression of dissent to be on the same level as that famous student protest in China?
That depends on how the hypothetical poll is done. The think that if these particular, multiple, non-hypothetical polls of China by Western organizations that Hikle referred to say that Chinese people feel that their government is working for them, is improving their material conditions. and that their voices are being heard, that is reliable.
Only someone misinformed about the 1989 protest and US/CIA/NED-orchestrated, murderously violent riot would ask this, which to be fair is 99% of Westerners.
Why on Earth would you not trust Chinese citizens to respond honestly? Further, the west is repressing dissent, just look at what happens to pro-Palestine protestors.
Yeah I wonder why
Would you class the western oppression of dissent to be on the same level as that famous student protest in China?
I'd say western oppression of dissent is at the same level or greater than the PRC, yes. Most importantly, the west is made up of dictatorships of capital, while the working class is in power in the PRC, meaning there are more people that oppose the system in the west than in China.
Alright, I'd rather get some water cannon and tear gas thrown at me than being run over by an APC or shot but to each their own I suppose.
The west runs over protestors all the time. The PRC both has incredibly low crime rates and police that don't even carry guns except for SWAT-style teams.
You have no clue what you're talking about and live with a permanent Red Scare mindset.
I don't live in the US lol, I dont like them either
You bringing a single video of a police car where none of the protestors (who are surrounding the police car and being aggressive) got run over to show how comparable it is Tiananmen is laughable. But yes the rEd ScArE is clouding my judgement
The riots around Beijing in 1989 were also aggressive. The protestors were firebombing and lynching unarmed PLA officers. That doesn't mean the hundreds of deaths that day aren't tragic, but it wasn't the kind of wholesome, peaceful liberal protests the west makes it out to be. Today, protests against western states are met with violent crackdowns, police running over protestors, and more. The PRC on the other hand has an incredibly low crime rate, solves crime non-violently when possible, and has far more support by the people in the first place.
You have no points. You don't believe Chinese people, you don't trust statistics, all you have is chauvanism, believing you know better than the people of China how they should govern themselves and who they should support.
How many videos do you want? Florida makes it explicitly legal to do so.
All you're saying is that you don't trust western polls, eastern polls, or any statistics whatsoever. It's willing blindness. What would it take to convince you that the people of China support their system if you don't trust them at their word?
China is a democracy for the people, not a dictatorship of capital like western countries. You have no points, you don't trust Chinese people.
Didn't realize you were asking for non-US examples. Here's Germany cracking down on dissent violently. Bloody May Day is a direct massacre of leftists.
One party systems can be democratic, as is the case in the PRC. The DPRK is also fairly democratic, it is a coalition government primarily led by the WPK, but also led by a religious Chongduist party and a Social Democratic party.
All you've done is repeat Red Scare nonsense, you don't genuinely analyze anything and think Chinese people cannot think for themselves, which is chauvanism. I am not going to apologize for being a communist.
Turkey is in the process of joining the EU, is this just you saying only those white enough count? What about the Republic of Korea, that massacred 1000s in Gwang-Ju despite being set up to model western democracy?
As for one-party states, what's important is that the people have an impact on policy and the direction of the state, which is factually higher in the PRC. Choosing which party doesn't matter nearly as much as choosing policy and direction.
Laughing at the DPRK being a coalition government based on approval voting doesn't actually counter it. This is just more of your Euro-chauvanism bleeding through.
If you were a Chinese citizen, you would not be scared. You would not be worried about censorship unless you were a capitalist. Again, you incessantly put words in the mouths of Chinese citizens and say you don't believe them, nor trust even western polling in China. There's nothing you'd believe, because of your Euro-supremacist attitude.
I live in the US, and those with my views are jailed or killed for speaking out. No western country is a democracy, all are dictatorships of capital that depend on imperialism. Acting smugly superior for being European despite the neocolonialism and imperialism directly subsidizing your life and the terror the west inflicts on the global south is why you need to do some major self-crit.