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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2025
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chapotraphouse
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It's also an awful and incorrect use of it, because I haven't seen anyone saying that Mamdani being elected will magically create socialism, I've seen people saying that this is an opportunity that we can use, that this will radicalise people. So we have fallen for the idea that...we should agitate and educate and use favourable material conditions to do so? Jokes on us I guess, much better to sit in our rooms and do nothing, that'll certainly move us closer towards a socialist future.
he is not the revolution, nobody here thinks he is. it is very strange when the zealous anti-electoralists act like we think he's going to kill some billionaires or has to have "death to cops" as a slogan to pass some purity test.
Yeah, like his goal is to win an election, not an internet leftist purity contest, of course he is going to brown-nose and not actively do anything that would just get his car bombed by the cops. I don't think electoralism is an effective strategy, but the idea that it means that every single person who tries to win any election at any point is an active impediment to the left is absurd. Electoralism isn't a strategy to achieve socialism, but it is a tool and opportunity that we can use to further our goals. It doesn't siphon away revolutionary energy, it creates it, because people start to think that things can change, and then when the system refuses to change, people will start to look for ways to change things outside of the system.
I do wonder how many people here moved to the left because of an electoral event either in their country or in the US. I would imagine it would be quite a few, I doubt anyone here spawned fully formed from the ether as the One True Leftist.
i don't think it's effective for overthrowing the empire or achieving communism. i think it's potentially effective for things that are within the scope and purview of local government like public housing and freezing police budgets.
It certainly can be effective at slowing down the amount of pain and suffering under capital people have. But it does depend on circumstances. From what I know about New York, Mamdani probably won't actually be able to make any noticable change in those areas because he will be sabotaged at every opportunity. But fuck being a doomer about things, just because I think he won't make effective change doesn't mean I don't want to see it. It would be great if he successfully reduce cop budgets and put in rent controls, that will help potentially millions of people.
It depends on what your goals are with electoralism, and it depends on if electoralism is still something fallowed by the masses and still guides their political development. I feel the need to quote Lenin at length here:
Now, I'm not implying that this is the tactic Mamdani is employing here, but you can see at least that Lenin recognized the power of these institutions and structures as a means of agitation and education of the masses. It could be that Mamdani's campaign has a similar net result of acting as a means of political education. This tactic obviously is intended to be employed by an independent working-class party and not as a means of infiltration into an existing party. Regardless, I can't imagine the people working on his campaign walking away with less class consciousness than when they arrived.
The whole chapter from “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder is worth reading.
Mamdani's approach to elections is not the only one. I don't think a single one of his detractors here would oppose someone running third party, or even running as a (D) but being very clear that the Democratic Party as a whole is beyond reform, which is the opposite of what Mamdani has said.
If he said that now he'd just be opening himself up for attacks from Cuomo and the media
On the other hand if he waits and the democrats run another centrist loser he can just withhold his endorsement and watch them squirm
God forbid Cuomo and the media attack him; they've been so even-handed and not platforming people calling him a jihadist so far.
"But this would be a stronger attack"
Would it? Look how Dems have totally capitulated to Trump. Even if it's not the consensus already, it's not a difficult argument to make. Refusing to step beyond where people are currently at to agitate in a positive direction is tailism.
This is the approach of a reformist, and a lazy one at that. As a Dem, insofar as other politicians are meaningfully in his purview to endorse or not, he should be hammering his opposition to whatever center-right lanyard he comes across. Then he can at least be an active reformist, and perhaps one day he'll do what Corbyn is doing now, but I think he has already demonstrated that he doesn't have the spine to break from the party ("Do you condemn 'Globalize the Intifada'?" is a much lower bar and he capitulated).
He didn't condemn the phrase so I don't see how that capitulation, at worst he sidestepped the issue
He eventually said that he would discourage people from using the phrase after doing like 20 interviews where people badgered him and he maintained his position (which was a reasonable sidestep that he just wasn't concerned with others saying it).