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US approves sending F-16s to Ukraine from Denmark and Netherlands
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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europeans insisting they're independent countries but they need Uncle Sam's permission to send their own military hardware anywhere 🤔
Still contains secrets that the US doesn’t want to fall in to the hands of her enemies. I’m sure part of the purchasing agreement is non-transfer clauses and the such to limit the risk. That said Ukraine should’ve had access to these last year
The first F-16 flew in 1974, half a century ago. Considering how widely they've been used, no one is going to learn anything significant if a few more are shot down or captured.
Which is going to happen 30s after getting into country. The weapons trickle is a cruel joke at this point. The last Ukrainian to die is going to be in an Abrahams.
Yeah? And the last Russian to die is going to be in a recommissioned t55.
Cope
No you
Sorry, but I'm going to be blunt. This is an ill informed comment. This is in fact normal with most weapons sales. For example:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swiss-government-refuses-re-export-arms-ukraine-2023-03-10/
By your logic, Denmark, Germany and Spain aren't independent of Switzerland, simply because they were able to refuse reexport. But of course that's nonsense. It's just that arms and weapons contract invariably include clauses which prohibit reexport without permission of the country of origin. To not include these clauses would make weapons trafficking far too easy. Simply export to a second country which isn't on the sanctions list, then have them re-export to another country, then another country, then another country, then North Korea or wherever because the second to final country doesn't have laws that prohibit it or has insufficient checks.
In this case, the US doing it publically bolsters US allies. The US has publicly said it's ok, so that if shit hits the fan, the US can't say "we didn't approve of this weapons sale, so it's their own problem".
Also, don't forget that the F16 is used as a delivery mechanism for nuclear weapons as part of nuclear sharing, so it's not a crate of automatic rifles. It's a serious escalation, given the Russians can never be entirely sure that the Ukrainian F16 flying towards their border isn't actually a Dutch F16 armed with nukes. In the case of the Netherlands the B61 with a yield of 300 kilotons of which IRC they have 200 of at their disposal if shit hits the fan. The US really isn't the bad guy for including stringent conditions on the reexport of a plane potentially capable of nuking Moscow.
TLDR The US may have undue influence on smaller NATO members, but this really isn't a good example of that.
By his logic the US isn't independent of Norway because they couldn't send NASAMS to Ukraine without approval...
So his "logic" might just be bullshit.
Since it's an arms deals via NATO, with weapons provided by the U.S., it seems fairly obvious the terms of the treaty include consent and/or approval when repurposing arms to non-member states.
Welcome to the real world where US jets can't be re-exported without the US' approval, where nobody can re-export Isreali-build missiles without Israel's approval, where Switzerland blocks the delivery of ammunition produced by a Swiss company or where Estonia couldn't even send old howitzers to Ukraine without Germany's approval although those were actually soviet-build and only for a short time owned by Germany (via ex-GDR stocks)...
This has exactly zero to do with the US or Europe but with the internationally agreed terms of arms export that absolutely everyone agreed upon... or most arms trade would mostly cease to exist.
But that's okay... we can live with the US being dependent on Europeans to send NASAMS to Ukraine and having to ask for approval first.
But nice atttempt at trolling...
Yeah, you had me until "... or most arms trade would mostly cease to exist".
europeans do not need uncle sams permission to send their own military hardware anywhere, they need uncle sams permission to send US patented and classified materials anywhere
similar to how the US needs permission to send [european country here]'s patented and classified materials anywhere
Correct! If the US wanted to send a batch of their NSMs to another country, sure as shit Norway would need to approve first.
It’s got zero to do with European independence and everything to do with how a purchasing contract is set up.
Hexes gonna hex
HA! And now you have been hexed too! If you were quiet we wouldn't have known to hex you but now you will forever be noticing that your shoes are untied and have rocks in them. haha ha ha!