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this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2025
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I'm sure Todd's head canon is that there's more of a debate than there actually is.
No one is seriously pushing 76 in that discussion.
ive seen it. they are out there. its wild but its true
...
These are not serious people
oh theyre serious. 20k hours into the game, level 10,000. absolute madmen
Hi. I'm here
A lot of folks really live 76. And it’s the only game in the series that offers them what they like, so why wouldn’t they?
76 is a fun brainless Fallout multiplayer. I'd rather have a real Fallout MP instead of 76, but I can't lie and had over 100hrs of fun.
It's absolutely fun with friends, we put in around that many hours and then haven't played it much since, but for the $10 we paid. It was well worth it.
Fallout 3 and NV for story and immersion
Fallout 4 for...er...I mean building mechanic is pretty cool.
Fallout 76 is Wild Wasteland on steroids and even canonicly people outta the vault are begged to stop nuking the everloving shit outta West Virginia xD
So yeah. New Vegas best immersion and roleplay, F 76 best building (for me, it's my own opinion - building here is less sandboxy but feels like it has a lot more meat - more pieces have usage etc.) and both for fun factor, just different flavor.
Dude, all the Fallout community is is debate.
We're just doing our favorite thing: picking a side and trying to solve a conflict between multiple factions.
That's... Wait. That's the whole premise of all the games dammit.
Bingo
Bango
Bongo
Bongo bongo bongo I don't wanna leave the Congo
Bongo
...I'm so happy in the jongo?
My opinion is that only 2 Fallout games were made: Fallout 1 and Fallout 2.
Fight me.
Okay, sounds fun.
I could argue that there are more Fallout games than just 1 and 2, and that we should probably admit that if Fallout 2 gets to sit at the “true Fallout” table, Fallout: New Vegas should probably get a chair too. A bunch of the original Black Isle developers who worked on Fallout 2 helped make it, and it continues the same regional story and factions. But then again, maybe having the Fallout 2 developers is not enough to make something “truly” Fallout. Maybe it is the isometric (actually skewed trimetric) view, classic CRPG style. Although once we open that can of radroaches, we get a whole new pile of questions.
So maybe we can swing the other direction entirely and say there are fewer “true” Fallout games, and that only Fallout 1 really qualifies. That does have some logic behind it, since the original creators, Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, and Jason Anderson, left during Fallout 2’s development. Their absence changed the whole design philosophy, shifting the tone, with way more pop culture references and absurdist writing, de-focused the tight world design of 1 so we got a ton of fluff dungeons and encounters, and gave us a more scattered writing experience thanks to the team being split up to work on different sections of the game (Tell me San Fran feels even remotely in the same universe as New Reno). Honestly, the jump from 1 to 2 kinda reminds me of the jump from 3 to NV. They feel the same on the surface, but are radically different experiences once you actually play them. But even then, Fallout 2 still uses the same engine and gameplay loop, so you could just as easily argue it stays true to the original formula.
But if that's the case and we double down on the 'gameplay matters more than the writing and development teams' point of view, then Fallout Nevada and Fallout Sonora belong on the list as well right? They are fan-made, sure, but they run on the same engine and play almost exactly like Fallout 1 and 2. So now we are up to four “true Fallout games.” So our definition needs to rules those out to get back to "only 1 and 2".
So maybe the fan-made games do not count because they are not official releases? But if it being an "official release" is the only rule, then Fallout 76 suddenly joins the “true Fallout” club too, which probably tells us that the bar has to be higher than that.
So if we say that a “true” Fallout game needs a mix of all the things above, like the original devs from the original studio working on the original engine with the original tone and the closest connection to the original story, then we come full circle and land right back at "Fallout 1 is the only true Fallout game."
No matter how I slice it, I can't find a definition that only includes Fallout 1 and 2...
You know... thinking about it, I guess the only constant of every single Fallout game since 2 has been that fans of the previous entry look at it and say "this is too radical a departure, this isn't a true Fallout at all!"
fallout shelter >
Tactics was great. I wish there were sequels to it.
im not sure what this comment is trying to get at, ive never seen a game franchise more debated than fallout. ive seen every game labelled as someones favorite, including that awful brotherhood of steel game
Just about any game is someone's favorite, but that doesn't mean there's a lot of debate. Fallout 4 and 76 appear to have reached an audience much larger than the rest of the series' usual standards for copies sold, so the sense I get is that if you're calling one of those your favorites, you most likely haven't seen most of the rest of the series. I think 3 and 4 get a lot of criticism that may go too far, but the long and short of it is that the consensus is that Bethesda's entries are not among the strongest in the series.
that may be your opinion but ive seen people who love fo3 but cant get into new vegas, who love 4 but cant get into 3 or new vegas, who love 76 because its online multiplayer and therefore not as big on the single player entries. theres endless debates about it. you may think its consensus but its not as clear cut as you think
hell theres fallout 1 purists who think that game is the ONLY fallout game
I've been on gaming forums for a long time, and I honestly can't recall a single time I saw anything resembling an actual debate that people might like 3 more than New Vegas. I have seen debates of 3 vs. 4 and New Vegas vs. 1/2, but I've never come across a debate between people who've played more or less the entire series and preferred Bethesda's games. Maybe that's you, but this would be the first time.
I have seen debates of both 3 and 4 over New Vegas. These arguments tend to come almost exclusively from newer fans. Anyone who played 1 and 2 first, especially back in the day, tends to have a much less favourable view of the Bethesda Fallouts. But there are tons of Bethesda-first fans who came into Fallout after first playing Skyrim, typically. The 4 fans either love the base building or tend to think the other games are "too old looking/feeling". The 3 fans... I don't even know, that game is pretty terrible I think. But they tend to argue the design of the world in 3 is better to explore than New Vegas.
I haven't personally heard anyone argue 76 is the best Fallout, but I'm sure someone is out there.
Basically the only negative things I can say about NV is that they're really heavy handed with forcing you to go through the map in certain direction/order. Though it still opens up in the second half of the game.
I mean, I love NV and think it's by far the best 3D Fallout, but it's also got a ton of performance and bug issues. Partly due to the engine they were working with and the insane development cycle, but still. The game isn't without issues. It's famously unstable and buggy if played without mods. I also think it needs mentioning that a lot of the assets look out of place, because they are. The game had such a short development cycle that a lot of them are just reused FO3 assets.
I love it, but there is a reason so many people recommend something like the Viva New Vegas modlist even for a first playthrough.
I've absolutely seen people who like 3 more than NV. Hell, I might be among them.
Well you folks have been pretty quiet for 15 years. What's the argument for 3 over New Vegas? Or 3 over 1/2?
Well, take this for what it’s worth since I’m personally of the 1 > NV > 2 > 3 > 4 > Tactics/76 > BoS persuasion, so our preferences probably overlap and I might not be the best person to speak to why some prefer 3. But here’s my best take at why some people might genuinely prefer Fallout 3 over New Vegas.
1. The world is more exploration-friendly.
Fallout 3 drops you near the center of the map, uses fewer invisible walls, and basically lets you run in any direction from the moment you leave the vault. Some of those design choices come at the cost of immersion and a clear sense of progression, but for players who just want to wander and explore, 3 scratches that itch.
New Vegas, by contrast, funnels players through a “racetrack” loop that eventually leads you to the Strip, then sends you outward to deal with the major factions. This structure reinforces the narrative pacing and supports the game’s strong story design, but it does reduce the sense of open-ended freedom.
2. Fallout 3’s dungeons are more extensive.
Most of 3’s dungeons are longer, more combat-heavy, and offer more substantial looting/scavenging opportunities, including bobbleheads and unique gear. While New Vegas has brilliantly written locations (Looking at you Vault 11), many of its buildings amount to one or two rooms, largely due to the game’s famously short development cycle.
For players who enjoy the simple rhythm of clearing out big spaces and gathering loot, Fallout 3 offers more of that classic “delve and scavenge” gameplay, even if its combat system is fairly "mid".
3. The atmosphere feels more traditionally “post-apocalyptic.”
This one is entirely subjective, but many players feel that Fallout 3’s bleak, bombed-out wasteland better captures the classic “nuclear apocalypse” aesthetic. New Vegas has richer world-building, themes more aligned with Fallout 1 and 2, and a more realistic sense of a society rebuilding after centuries, but its tone is often more eccentric than apocalyptic. For some players, that makes 3 easier to get immersed in.
For the record, I still personally believe New Vegas is the stronger game. (Outside of "atmospheric reasons") Most of the things Fallout 3 excels at are also done just as well (or better) in Oblivion and Skyrim. But what New Vegas does well, player agency and narrative depth, is something very few non-Isometric CRPG games even attempt, and even fewer do it even half as good. So comparing the two within their respective genre "spiritual siblings", NV is a exemplary title within its peers, while 3 is kinda just "one of the post Morrowind Bethesda" games (where Skyrim seems to reign as the champion).
Still, Fallout 3 delivers the “meditative, exploration-driven gameplay” that Bethesda built its reputation on from Oblivion onwards. For players who fell in love with that formula (especially those who entered the series with 3), New Vegas can feel like a departure from what they enjoy about the series.
And honestly, that’s one of my favorite things about Fallout: every game is a departure from the last. Fallout 2 shifted the tone dramatically from Fallout 1. Fallout 3 reinvented the franchise entirely. New Vegas reworked 3’s skeleton into something more narrative-focused. Fallout 4 emphasized crafting and building. Fallout 76 went multiplayer. No matter which game is your favorite, each one brings something unique to the table.
Anyway, I could talk about this stuff until the actual apocalypse, but I'll end it here. But hopefully this helps explain why some people genuinely prefer Fallout 3 over New Vegas.
For the setting point, I agree three is more classic post-nuclear-apocalypse, but also that's a big negative. Fallout isn't just post-nuclear-apocalypse, it's post-post-apocalyptic. The radiation should be a lot less prevelant and there should be societies rebuilt.
Three feels like it should be set very soon after the nukes fell. A lot of the narrative and environment don't make sense with the timeline they wrote. There's speculation this is because it was originally supposed to be set much earlier, but they pushed the date back late in development to make the story BoS VS Enclave, which wouldn't fit earlier.
100% agree. A youtuber once summed up the setting pretty perfectly imho. They said something to the effect of
3's more standard "post-apocalypse vibes" don't really nail the vision of the original Fallout. This is especially a negative if you are coming at Fallout from the standpoint of a long time fan. Like I said in my first rant,
And yeah, it seems pretty obvious that 3 was meant to be set much earlier in the timeline originally. With Rivet City being the most advanced "from the ground up" society in terms of agriculture simply by having a small hydroponics lab, most of society surviving by scavenging, attempts to cleanup and rebuild at an extremely early or nonexistent stage, etc.
Though I assume that for folks who prefer 3, these are not hills they particularly care about, and that the more generic post-apocalyptic vibes (that were really in vogue when 3 was released) hit the exact fantasy they wanted to play through.
But yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with your points.
There's an added layer to the West Coast games past 1 as well: they're post-post apocalyptic. We have nations now, the world is rebuilding.
Very true, and that's one of my favorite elements of the West Coast lore. Honestly, if I could change only one thing about Bethesda's approach to Fallout, it would be their dogmatic approach to keeping the world locked in time.
I actually enjoyed the show, and am even trying to remain optimistic for season two, but resetting the world-building on the West Coast just to keep the apocalyptic tone really made me sad to see. Killed off a story I loved that had been slowly building since my childhood.
Bethesda has a lot of lore issues, but their main one is that they set pretty much all of their games far too late in the timeline. If you want to tell a post-apocalyptic story, that's fine.
It doesn't make sense for anything to be living in a place where the water has been poison for 200 years. Fallout 3 would fit perfectly before Fallout 1 on the timeline.
They knew it didn't make sense for there to be like 3 half-assed towns in Boston after 200 years, so they created The Institute. Who are so all-powerful they wiped the Commonwealth of any real progress toward society, yet have no clear goals and are extremely incompetent. Set it around 60 years after the bombs, maybe take out the Synth plot and replace it with actual, nonconvoluted slavery, thus expanding on the themes of 3.
To me, the show is a collage of scenes that I like, with quite a bit of stuff that I really dislike. There's really cool ideas in it, and I honestly do love how they reference some of the universal experiences that we get when playing those games. But the treatment of the lore, in general, is honestly borderline disrespectful. The nuking of Shady Sands, as you referenced. But also the dumbing-down of the Sino-American War to a simple ideological conflict. Fallout is absolutely about how different groups interact and conflict with each other, but it is not about capitalism vs communism, and the Sino-American War is not the real-life Cold War, it's a war between America and China over depleting resources. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they even really reference the war, save for a crashed SOVIET satellite. Awfully convenient to tweak it that way when the show is made by a global megacorporation and China's all in on the American media market now.
Now, they've announced that in Season 2, "...every faction might think they've won." To emulate, "...the story of history depend[ing] on who you ask." Which, yknow, New Vegas already showed with the vast and varying opinions of its characters, as well as quite literally showing the effect of historical debate with the in-game debate about the Bitter Springs Massacre.
I'm waiting to see how they pull it off, but I can't see how all the factions could think they've won if Mr. House is alive, seeing how you have to assassinate him for 3 of the endings.
Also, Caesar has an incurable brain tumor and you either kill Lanius or talk him into abandoning the front entirely in 3 of the endings. I don't see how the Legion could ever be doing good. Maybe Macaulay Macaulay "Mr. McCulkin" Culkin Culkin is their new leader.
Apologies for the rant, I've sorted through my feelings on the material we've had for a while but this show has me hot. That said like yeah solid 7/10 as a standalone show and I would even recommend it to people who would never play the games anyway.
Yeah, I totally concur, a lot of the stories they want to tell fit so much better closer to the bombs.
I also think Bethesda's need to make sure every story contains the core elements of Super Mutants, the BoS, Deathclaws, Radscorpions, etc is another key issue they have with the lore. When I played 1 and 2, it felt like I was seeing just a small slice of a world that could have any number of crazy new things in it. But now that it's basically the same thing coast to coast, the world feels stale and predictable.
And you pretty much summed up all my thoughts on the show. The 'collage of fun scenes' made it enjoyable. But it was also beyond disrespectful. Throwing away the world built up in 1, 2, and NV just to make it match the key elements of 3 and 4 is... super fucking shitty.
And I really don't see how they can make it seem like every faction in NV can think they won without also completely invalidating the significance of the choices in NV. But I'm honestly already resigned to Bethesda just killing off that as well tho, so I hope they at least still have a fun collage of scenes.
You're absolutely right on your point about the core elements. They think that the Fallout universe needs a Triforce, a Master Sword, and a Ganon. But it's just not that kind of series. The iconography is so much less important than the themes. It feels like they're jingling keys in front of us sometimes when they show off BoS and Super Mutants (who were supposed to be dying out).
Funnily enough, the only icon they use that would feasibly be in every part of the US was Nuka Cola, and they retconned its design...
Oh, just saw your edit, but no apologies necessary. If the small essay I've written between all my comments is any indication, I just like talking about fallout. So thanks for the rant actually!
Thanks! But I really do mean it when I say I haven't come across defenders of 3 over New Vegas, so this was definitely all a new perspective for me, lol. I also think there are a lot of people asking for a new Fallout game that haven't tried 1 and 2, and I'd love to point more people that way when the topic comes up, or at least to the Wasteland games as a close enough proximity.
Agreed, there are not very many folks still hard Stanning for 3. Though I think a large reason for that is 3 was superseded by Skyrim, and FO4. While NV fans are still kinda waiting on even a true spiritual successor. So NV fans really haven't moved on, while 3's fans have long since gone onto other things.
Plus, the things 3 does well kinda makes you "forget about most of it" after a while. Like, I play A Tale of Two Wastelands pretty often, and one thing that stands out about 3's world is how much of it is just more of the same. It all just blends together. Eventually, the feeling of a real world breaks down, leaving you with a "lot of gameplay with not a lot of substance"
NV's emphasis on world building and choice on the other-hand makes you think about the game a lot more, even when you put the game down, you can still "play it" just by thinking about how your choices would affect the long term realities of the world.
So while 3's fans can basically say "Yeah, I really liked that game, the world was fun and stealing the Declaration of Independence from that robot was funny", NV fans can have full on years long debates of "Independent Vegas vs NCR vs House", I've even seen some mad lads argue that Caesar's belief that a sufficiently strong opponent to challenge the NCR would force the NCR to address some of the issues they were having as a country was a good idea. These people are of course insane, but you get my point.
All of this really adds up to the fact that NV built a game that is easy to form communities around, and people are excited to talk about, while 3 kinda just built a really solid turn your brain off game.
Edit: Oh, and yeah, 100% agree. More people should play 1 and 2. It's hard to recommend for fans of Bethesda games to go back to an obscure game from the late 90's, but like, they're so fucking good!
I don't think it's better than NV as a whole, but there are things it does do better. Probably the biggest is the random events. They have a lot more variety and interaction then NV. You might end up with a BoS Remnant group spawn and a Deathclaw, and they'll just start fighting. NV doesn't really have this. It's much more contained and scripted.
In this way, 3 is closer to 1 and 2 than NV is. A large part of the first two games are the random events as you travel the world. NV is almost entirely predictable, with the same things always being at the same spots. 1,2, and 3 are fairly unpredictable while exploring. Landmarks will be the same, but what you see along the way usually won't be.
Spot-on. 3 absolutely follows the world design of 1 & 2, but it scales it down to a city area instead of part of a state.
I'm a huge New Vegas fangirl, but I will say that the random encounters have kept Fallout 3's world surprisingly fresh. I've burnt myself out on the 30 side quests, but if I just go explore then I usually see something new every playthrough. Hell, 3 was the game that really cemented Bethesda's status as environmental storytellers with a real knack for making a space point toward its previous purpose. Back before they dropped so many skeletons in random places that it became a meme in Fallout 4.
New Vegas simply does not have that type of design. There's many more avenues to explore in quests and many more quests, but you can tell they focused the dev time almost entirely in that area. 10/10 tho, would recommend.
Idk, The Elder Scrolls' fandom debates a lot too. There's still people fighting over whether the Stormcloaks or the Empire were right in Skyrim, or whether Morrowind or Oblivion are the best in the series
I'm not saying Metacritic is the end-all be-all, but it does confirm the most commonly held opinion about the popularity of the modern games. You may think that there is a real debate here but that just isn't the case. 4 and 76 are pretty firmly the less well received of these games.