12

I've seen several references to some sort of rift between the users of these instances today. What's happening?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

ML is run by heavily-indoctrinated communists. They're the type that straight up worship communist leaders.

lemmy.world is kind of run by pussies. They blocked the piracy sublemmy for no real reason other than that.

It doesn't surprise me they are butting heads. Hopefully the instances that allow interaction with both instances triumph over those that try to restrict access.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago

They're the type that straight up worship communist leaders.

I wouldn't phrase it at that. They're fans of Russia, China, Iran, and pretty much any other country that's antagonistic to the US. This regardless of whether said state is communist, especially Russia, which has become fascist under Putin's rule.

In short, the .ml owners are tankies

[-] FunkyStuff@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

If you disagree that .ml are communist and insist that they're "tankies" instead, it seems to imply that not all communists are "tankies." However, every single communist I'm aware of is called a tankie. What does a communist who isn't a tankie look like? Are there examples of such a thing?

[-] Iunnrais@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

Are you seriously conflating communism with authoritarianism?

It’s like you guys went through the red scare and instead of figuring it was a stupid insane witch hunt without any real foundation, decided that the republican definition of “communism = evil” was actually true, but you wanted in anyway. It’s ridiculous.

[-] MaeBorowski@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's such an irony to me that people who call us "tankies" and say that we are somehow caricatures of communists, always make such caricatures out of themselves. Like, instead of engaging with any of FunkyStuff's very reasonable, calmly stated questions, you go off about how we ("tankies") just decided to be evil, and calling us ridiculous while behaving in such a ridiculous, blatantly and needlessly antagonistic way yourself. It's over the top.

Paraphrasing:
FunkyStuff: asks a calm, concise series of questions that are meant to help clarify the issue.
lunnrais: "See?! Look how frothing these evil, ridiculous lunatic tankies are!!"

And this after correctly recognizing that the red scare was a terrible witch hunt? But it was people like us, people who believe what we believe, that were the "witches" of that particular persecution. We are simply what most communists in the world look like, we believe what most communists in the world believe, people who have very clear and consistent views. But instead of honestly trying to engage or actually understand why "tankies" believe the things they do, you just smear us with lies and pretend that the position of Marxist-Leninist communists is just some bananas, made-up-on-the-fly, contrarian position, rather than one with deep foundations that have been developed over decades of intense thought and practice including by people fighting in the trenches for their own and others liberation. To you, were the Black Panthers "tankies"? Do you know about their mutual support of and with North Korea, or did they just decide to be "evil" to pwn the libs? Was Che Guevara a "tankie"? Is Michael Parenti? Were they all just ridiculous contrarians who liked the picture that reactionaries ("republicans") painted of them?

[-] MaeBorowski@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

edit: removing duplicate comment.

[-] FunkyStuff@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

I remain at the same place, yet to understand how one can be a communist and not authoritarian. And I feel like you're failing to interrogate whether your concept of authoritarianism is being used with any amount of consistency or if it's just a club you wield against people who have positions you disagree with for other reasons.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 week ago

I remain at the same place, yet to understand how one can be a communist and not authoritarian.

I think you maybe need to read a book then. Try starting with "The Communist Manifesto"

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Will do!

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.

In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.

Another fun quote, though not from the manifesto:

We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

OK, so maybe you don't know what "authoritarian" means? Because,

In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.

Is not it.

Edit: A period of time where the proletariat organizes power to eliminate the bourgeoisie in order to get rid of those previous class divides, is not authoritarianism.

[-] FunkyStuff@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Edit: A period of time where the proletariat organizes power to eliminate the bourgeoisie in order to get rid of those previous class divides, is not authoritarianism.

Ok, so how can this be done in such a way that it is not? Were the Soviets, Cubans, Vietnamese, Chinese, Koreans, Venezuelans, Laotians, Grenadians, Nicaraguans, Tanzanians, Angolans, Zimbabweans, and Burkinabes just not quite smart enough to figure it out?

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Edit: A period of time where the proletariat organizes power to eliminate the bourgeoisie in order to get rid of those previous class divides, is not authoritarianism.

It is though, you are being authoritarian toward the bourgeois in that case.

They're not all going to consent to having their property redistributed.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I know perfectly well what Marx is talking about. Socialist states, as they exist in real life, are that dictatorship of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie. Until all production and distribution is collectivized globally, there will not be the grand stage of communism, and instead we are in the radical transformation between capitalism and communism called socialism.

Critique of the Gotha Programme is also quite helpful:

But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only – for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.

But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby.

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

The transition between capitalism and communism is long, messy, queer, gradual, protracted, bumpy, and involves working out many contradictions.

[-] qevlarr@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Are you saying communism necessarily implies authoritarianism? What about anarchists?

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

We live in a dictatorship of capital, you're not going to be able to get consent from capitalists to overthrow them.

If you're intersted in revolutionary change you're going to be authoritarian to someone. The capitalists not going to be on board for getting their property redistributed.

If you're not interested in revolution you're the compatible left

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

MLs aren't "fans" of Russia or Iran, but value their geopolitical opposition to the west, the imperialist hegemony. MLs do tend to be fans of the PRC, as it's a socialist country. The idea that a country has to be 100% ideologically aligned in order to get even critical support from a communist just plays into the idea that communists are obsessed with purity testing, but that's not the case.

[-] how_we_burned@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

ML is run by heavily-indoctrinated communists. They're the type that straight up worship communist leaders.

It's run by Russia bots who are pumping out Kremlin talking points whilst deleting anyone who is critical.

I got deleted for pointing out Putin runs a mafia state.

Shit even the Russian communist don't like Putin.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 week ago

Kremlin and China.

It's a shame, because I do think China is doing a lot of things correct right now. But these people make me question every fucking thing I read about them.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

Great to see straight up McCarthyism come back into fashion. Why consider other views when you can just declare anyone who disagrees with you to be a non-human foreigner.

[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

I got deleted for pointing out Putin runs a mafia state.

From checking the modlog you got a comment removed and a temp ban for insulting someone

[-] how_we_burned@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

Is it an insult against Putin to declare he is running a mafia state?

[-] Edie@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

Where do you dumb fucks get this shit from?

Keep on making shit up you dumb ass.

Modlog strikes again.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago
[-] Diva@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

no, it was calling another poster a dumbass, and a dumb fuck

Where do you dumb fucks get this shit from?) Thirdly Russia had to invade and hold phony referendums in order to somehow prove eastern Ukraine didn't want to become part of Europe. Keep on making shit up you dumb ass.

insults people

gets moderated

"I AM A FREE SPEECH WARRIOR FIGHTING PUTIN"

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

Supporting communists is not the same as worship. The devs and mods are certainly ideologically committed, but not out of sheer blind religious adherance.

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago

Right. You guys don't just "support" communists; you worship them.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

No? I'm a communist, and I support communism. Worship has nothing to do with it. Can you explain what you mean by that?

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If you're truly clueless and not just feigning ignorance, then head on over to !worldnews@lemmy.ml and say something critical of a communist leader.

See how quickly you get banned.

You are feigning ignorance though because that's how indoctrinated you are.

[-] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago

head on over to !worldnews@lemmy.ml and say something critical of a communist leader.

Look at who you're replying to. They're not capable of fulfilling your request.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

I've been critical of communists and communist leaders before, I think you're confusing disinformation being removed with any and all critique being removed. Critique based on disinformation isn't valid critique.

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Sure you did. You're going to say whatever you think will defend your indoctrination.

That's how this works.

Anyone with a brain can look at the lemmy.ml modlog to see for themselves that you're full of shit.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

I've mentioned that the PRC is lacking in LGBTQIA+ rights (though they are improving), that population transfer in the soviet union was one of its worst crimes, that Stalin's homophobia was deeply reactionary, that I'd prefer if the PRC was more millitantly anti-imperialist than they are presently, that revisionism and mismanagement began a trend of liberalization in the USSR that contributed to its collapse, that the PRC made a huge error in backing Cambodia against Vietnam, and much more than this.

I'm not "indoctrinated," and anyond can look at the Lemmy.ml modlog to see for themselves that you're full of shit.

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

See everyone? Look at how delusional the .ml crowd is.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago

Can you elaborate for the crowd what specifically I said is delusional? Do you think the critiques I have are actually good things? Do you think they didn't actually happen?

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

It's really sad how you always have a response.

It's part of your indoctrination.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 week ago

Being capable of carrying a conversation is evidence of indoctrination?

[-] enterpries@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

This isn't a conversation. This is you desperately trying to save face and protect your cult.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml -2 points 1 week ago

What a ridiculous thing to say...

load more comments (-1 replies)
[-] cepelinas@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 week ago

Maybe you weren't banned because you wre from .ml they have banned me on an alt account for expressing my opinion that soviet occupation didn't help my country.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Modlog link? I maintain that critique based on disinformation isn’t valid critique, so it depends on what you said.

[-] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 week ago

It's absolutely absurd that westerners consider people with wildly heterodox views to be the "indoctrinated" ones.

this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2026
12 points (100.0% liked)

Ask Lemmy

37922 readers
172 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS