$30,000,000,000 Question: Canada’s F-35 Debate Seems Paralyzed (www.19fortyfive.com)

submitted 2 days ago by Scotty@scribe.disroot.org to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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While 16 F-35 fighters remain contractually committed for delivery starting this year, the full 88-jet procurement is stalled amidst trade friction with the Trump administration.
Rising program costs—now estimated at $30 billion—have reopened the door for Saab’s JAS 39 Gripen E.
The Gripen offers superior industrial benefits, including 12,600 domestic jobs and Arctic-optimized maintenance.
Ottawa must now balance the F-35’s unmatched NORAD interoperability against the Gripen’s economic sovereignty as the aging CF-18 Hornet fleet reaches its structur

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[-] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

They're exceptionally reliable, and better than anything else at what they do. He went back on this word because he was actually put into rooms with airforce experts who made that clear, and he didn't expect the US to turn evil at the time.

[-] motogo@feddit.dk 7 points 1 day ago

Cost Per Flying Hour F-35A: $36,000 - $48,000 USD Gripen E/F: $7,000 - $36,200 USD Difference: ~25-75% cheaper for Gripen (varies by source) Maintenance Hours Per Sortie F-35: 20-25 man-hours Gripen: 6-8 man-hours Difference: Gripen requires ~70% less maintenance labor Operational Availability (Readiness) F-35: 70-75% Gripen: High 90% range Difference: Gripen achieves roughly 2x readiness rate Total Lifecycle Cost (8,000-hour lifespan) F-35: ~$400 million (operations only) Gripen E: ~$180 million (operations only) Difference: F-35 costs ~2.2x more to operate

[-] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 2 points 1 day ago

Nice. I'm guessing the F-16 would be closer to the F-35?

And then any other stealth aircraft is going to blow both out of the water.

[-] BCsven@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

I thought they said the F35s were terriblly expensive to maintain per hour of flying. Things can seem reliable in air if most of their time is on the ground getting replacement parts, and adjustments, but that quickly can lose a war by expenses.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 2 points 9 hours ago

They are very expensive per flight hour, yes, but that's not the same thing as being unreliable. It's a high end weapon with a high end price tag.

[-] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago

Yes, that's my point, you can lose a war by expenses if your equipment needs a ton of preventative maintenance to stay reliable.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago

I mean, saying that any single factor is why you "lose a war" is completely ignoring how incredibly complex warfare is. No one loses a war because of one piece of equipment.

But if we were to take that framework as true, it would be just as fair to say that you can lose a war by having inferior equipment.

There are a lot of factors that go into military procurement decisions. That's a part (albeit a small one) of why they take so damn long.

[-] CanadaPlus@futurology.today 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Nope, you're probably thinking of the F-22. The F-35 got it back down to reasonable hanger time and care, at the cost of a long, multi-trillion dollar development period.

Per the other commenter the Gripen is a bit cheaper yet, but that's because it's built like a car from the 70's or something. All off-the-shelf parts combined in obvious ways with lots of allowances. The cost of that is it shows up to radar like a 70's car. It's basically just a very different aircraft for doing different things.

[-] anachronist@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

They're getting blasted out of the air in Iran right now. One confirmed with a second loss possible. How many F-16s has Ukraine lost in combat? I'm not saying the F-16 is a better aircraft than the F-35 but I think it does show that "stealth" isn't all that and an "old" aircraft like the F-16 or (for that matter) Gripen, with a modern sensor and weapons load-out, is actually pretty similar in capability.