if your attention span has been ruined by social media like mine is; madeline pendelton does short form videos that touches on it and she backs it up with a linktree full of sources and north korea seems to be her favorite topic. she's also on almost all of the social media platforms and you should be aware that her videos comment are mostly filled with hate from brainwashed people.
she also does a twich channel where she goes over the current news and explains the propaganda in it; i watch it everyday.
google can't even find this xtian divine person; so post your source instead of baseless accusations, but don't bother if it's a carefully stitched, out-of-context talking points.
I did spell it wrong, its xiandivyne but here is one of the response videos. His tiktok. Decide what you want, I know you will anyway. But if we allow racists who disingenuously represent black ppl to lead the conversations, we will keep getting more trumps instead of Harris's and the world will keep getting more fascistic and capitalistic.
nothing in this video supports the racism allegation you're presenting here so that's the closest thing to disingenuous that's been displayed here so far.
I send one video about a whole back and forth crashout, and you expect to have the whole story. No, this one video is not the whole story, but at this point, you have what you need to find the whole thing.
What im saying is that she treated this man so badly for no reason and my conclusion is that she must be racist to have had this interaction this way. Further supported by how Pendleton was one of those "leftists" who spent the whole 2024 election shitting on Harris, helping pave the way to Trump 2.
Edit: I did find this follow up As well and he kinda sums it all up. He's not accusing her of racism. But I am. She was not acting like a normal, nonracist person
Further supported by how Pendleton was one of those “leftists” who spent the whole 2024 election shitting on Harris, helping pave the way to Trump 2.
I don't know or care about anyone else you mentioned to this point but this is fucking silly blueMAGA nonsense. Harris lost because she refused to distance herself from an active genocide and spent her entire run courting republicans and ignoring the left who then proceeded to not vote for the genocide enabler.
I hate technology, sorry about the bad link. If you didnt support Harris, you furthered fascism intentionally. No leftist with a brain would sit that shit out.
Harris would also have been furthering fascism, she specifically said under her the US Empire's millitary would be the most lethal in the world, and that she would continue the genocide of Palestine. Leftists have been building alternatives to the democrats for decades, and they can only continue to grow when people abandon the two major fascist parties in power. You don't fight fascism with the same finance capital creating fascism.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn't really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
A citizen who has committed an act of treason against the state, such as by betraying the State and
escaping to another country or surrendering, defecting or giving over secrets, shall be sentenced to a
term of reform through labour of more than 5 years. In particularly grave cases, he or she shall be
sentenced to life-term of reform through labour or to the death penalty and confiscation of
property.
This doesn't sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
I know you didn't ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it's a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Surrender specifically is a combatant concept (defecting and espionage are not), non-combatants don't surrender under military law, they migrate or seek asylum. E.g. to surrender you must be a combatant in this case an active service member.
Universal conscription doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It's simply a mandatory service term, not permanent combatant status. Much like in the ROK, Thailand, etc., eligible citizens serve a set period then return to civilian life, they aren't subject to surrender laws before or after their term.
I understand this but am not familiar with the specifics. In Israel, for example, I know people remain on reserve duty long past their conscription period.
This isn't relevant anyway the fact is the laws you posted are seemingly entirely normal laws that are common around the world, and you were wrong that they aren't allowed to travel abroad by the government.
No reserves are not active combatants unless called upon just like in every country that has reservese (I can't think of one that doesn't). And even if it did the law itself as written is perfectly inline with international norms the fact they have universal conscription or a possible large reserve force doesn't change that.
It looks like North Korean citizens enter service for ten years, and stay in reserve for another 30. Presumably we agree that this law prevents them from seeking asylum in South Korea until at least the end of that ten year period, which is pretty restrictive. I don't see any reason to believe it wouldn't also continue into the reserve period or even after, especially since the law is written as a law applying to "citizens" assuming the translation is correct.
I don’t see any reason to believe it wouldn’t also continue into the reserve period or even after
Because surrender has a specific meaning that requires the person in question be an active combatant. The law applies to citizens as it cover this but also espionage and defection which do not require this caveat.
Look, even if it doesn't apply to reserve force members, the claim that North Koreans are free to leave the country is at best misleading if they have to wait until they are 30 years old.
That's a disgustingly bad faith interpretation of what is said and is patently false. They have laws surrounding surrender that are inline with international norms same with defection and espionage none of these apply to leaving legally as you would know if you went to university in China plenty of non 30 year olds learning there. Citizens of the DPRK are permitted to travel by the government it's the UN sanctions stopping them travelling beyond China and Russia.
obviously you can’t move to a hostile power during wartime that’s called defecting.
I'm not trolling. This is what people claim when they say people can't leave the country. Debunking this claim without acknowledging that the core idea is true is dishonest.
No country on Earth currently or has ever allowed that.
I am pretty sure that people traveled between the US and the USSR in both directions during the cold war. Indians and Pakistanis can travel back and forth. Heck, Americans can go to Iran right now if they can figure out a way to.
If you wish to continue to troll I think we should end this here. Citizens of the DPRK are allowed to travel (just not defect to a country they are at war with) what stops them is visa refusals due to UN sanctions. The US and USSR were never at war that's why it was the cold war. India and Pakistan have normalcy as core parts of their ceasefire terms from the most recent scuffle (which never did escalate to all our war). Funny you bring up Iran who the US never declared war on but do you know where they aren't allowed travel by the American government, the DPRK because they are at war with them. Please educate yourself and grow up trolling is unbecoming once you mature past 12.
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it's bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you're going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
(1) by betraying the State and escaping to another country or
(2) surrendering
(3) defecting
(4) giving over secrets
1 implies that escaping to another country is a betrayal of the state. 2 and 3 involve no violent criminal acts. 4 isn't violent, although it is the only item on the list that might make sense.
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
제63조 (조국반역죄)
공민이 조국을 배반하고 다른 나라로 도망쳤거나 투항, 변절하였거나 비밀을 넘겨준것과 같은 조국반역행위를 한 경우에는 5년이상의 로동교화형에 처한다. 정상이 특히 무거운 경우에는 무기로동교화형 또는 사형 및 재산몰수형에 처한다.
edit"공민" meaning "citizen," suffixed with "이" probably marking the the noun as the subject.
"조국" meaning "motherland," suffixed with "을" "indicates the future intention of the subject."
"배반" means "betrayal, treachery, [or] treason," suffixed with "하고" meaning "and" or "with."
"다른" means "different, [or] other."
"나라" means "country," suffixed with "로" meaning "to, [or] toward."
It is presumably "도망쳤거" although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with "도망" that all mean "to flee, to escape." Presumably suffixed with "나" I think meaning "or"
"투항" meaning "surrender"
So a very literal translation might be something like "citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender" ... and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
Based on my extremely limited Korean skills, your translation seems to be correct in conveying intention, though there may be context or subtext I don't understand.
if your attention span has been ruined by social media like mine is; madeline pendelton does short form videos that touches on it and she backs it up with a linktree full of sources and north korea seems to be her favorite topic. she's also on almost all of the social media platforms and you should be aware that her videos comment are mostly filled with hate from brainwashed people.
she also does a twich channel where she goes over the current news and explains the propaganda in it; i watch it everyday.
here's the most recent video of hers that i shared: https://www.tiktok.com/@madeline_pendleton/video/7610963982198770975
Stopped reading and Madeline Pendelton. I dont trust people who are racist.
leftists aren't racists; that's only liberals and conservatives.
Im not generalizing. Im talking specifically about Pendleton.
so am i and pendelton is not racist
Her crashout against Xtian Divine on tiktok was plenty of proof that she's a racist person.
google can't even find this xtian divine person; so post your source instead of baseless accusations, but don't bother if it's a carefully stitched, out-of-context talking points.
I did spell it wrong, its xiandivyne but here is one of the response videos. His tiktok. Decide what you want, I know you will anyway. But if we allow racists who disingenuously represent black ppl to lead the conversations, we will keep getting more trumps instead of Harris's and the world will keep getting more fascistic and capitalistic.
nothing in this video supports the racism allegation you're presenting here so that's the closest thing to disingenuous that's been displayed here so far.
I send one video about a whole back and forth crashout, and you expect to have the whole story. No, this one video is not the whole story, but at this point, you have what you need to find the whole thing. What im saying is that she treated this man so badly for no reason and my conclusion is that she must be racist to have had this interaction this way. Further supported by how Pendleton was one of those "leftists" who spent the whole 2024 election shitting on Harris, helping pave the way to Trump 2.
Edit: I did find this follow up As well and he kinda sums it all up. He's not accusing her of racism. But I am. She was not acting like a normal, nonracist person
I don't know or care about anyone else you mentioned to this point but this is fucking silly blueMAGA nonsense. Harris lost because she refused to distance herself from an active genocide and spent her entire run courting republicans and ignoring the left who then proceeded to not vote for the genocide enabler.
that's the same video and leftists did not support kamala harris; liberals who called themselves leftists did.
I hate technology, sorry about the bad link. If you didnt support Harris, you furthered fascism intentionally. No leftist with a brain would sit that shit out.
Harris would also have been furthering fascism, she specifically said under her the US Empire's millitary would be the most lethal in the world, and that she would continue the genocide of Palestine. Leftists have been building alternatives to the democrats for decades, and they can only continue to grow when people abandon the two major fascist parties in power. You don't fight fascism with the same finance capital creating fascism.
only 30 million liberals sat it out and i'm genuinely interested in hearing anti-pendelton views so long as there's legitimate grievances about her.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn't really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
From the Article 63 of this 2015 criminal law document:
This doesn't sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
They absolutely are. I met more than one during my many years in university.
You very clearly misread this. It's a crime to commit treason and then escape. AND. "escaping" to another country is not a crime.
Do you have a take on 2 and 3
I know you didn't ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it's a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Section 34 of the Army Act 1950
and so on.
Are you suggesting that these laws only apply during active service in the military?
No that's not at all what I said.
The examples you site as comparable to 2 are military laws.
Surrender specifically is a combatant concept (defecting and espionage are not), non-combatants don't surrender under military law, they migrate or seek asylum. E.g. to surrender you must be a combatant in this case an active service member.
Sure, but in a country with universal conscription I'm not sure that's exclusive to the military context.
Universal conscription doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It's simply a mandatory service term, not permanent combatant status. Much like in the ROK, Thailand, etc., eligible citizens serve a set period then return to civilian life, they aren't subject to surrender laws before or after their term.
I understand this but am not familiar with the specifics. In Israel, for example, I know people remain on reserve duty long past their conscription period.
This isn't relevant anyway the fact is the laws you posted are seemingly entirely normal laws that are common around the world, and you were wrong that they aren't allowed to travel abroad by the government.
How is that not relevant? If people are in reserve services presumably this law would apply to them.
No reserves are not active combatants unless called upon just like in every country that has reservese (I can't think of one that doesn't). And even if it did the law itself as written is perfectly inline with international norms the fact they have universal conscription or a possible large reserve force doesn't change that.
It looks like North Korean citizens enter service for ten years, and stay in reserve for another 30. Presumably we agree that this law prevents them from seeking asylum in South Korea until at least the end of that ten year period, which is pretty restrictive. I don't see any reason to believe it wouldn't also continue into the reserve period or even after, especially since the law is written as a law applying to "citizens" assuming the translation is correct.
Because surrender has a specific meaning that requires the person in question be an active combatant. The law applies to citizens as it cover this but also espionage and defection which do not require this caveat.
Look, even if it doesn't apply to reserve force members, the claim that North Koreans are free to leave the country is at best misleading if they have to wait until they are 30 years old.
That's a disgustingly bad faith interpretation of what is said and is patently false. They have laws surrounding surrender that are inline with international norms same with defection and espionage none of these apply to leaving legally as you would know if you went to university in China plenty of non 30 year olds learning there. Citizens of the DPRK are permitted to travel by the government it's the UN sanctions stopping them travelling beyond China and Russia.
The core question isn't whether they can study in China, it is whether they can freely cross the border into South Korea to seek asylum.
First off no. That was not the core question. You said:
The answer is yes they are permitted. Despite how you attempt to twist what the law says and what we were talking about to dodge this fact.
Secondly obviously you can't move to a hostile power during wartime that's called defecting. No country on Earth currently or has ever allowed that.
Are you trolling?
I'm not trolling. This is what people claim when they say people can't leave the country. Debunking this claim without acknowledging that the core idea is true is dishonest.
I am pretty sure that people traveled between the US and the USSR in both directions during the cold war. Indians and Pakistanis can travel back and forth. Heck, Americans can go to Iran right now if they can figure out a way to.
If you wish to continue to troll I think we should end this here. Citizens of the DPRK are allowed to travel (just not defect to a country they are at war with) what stops them is visa refusals due to UN sanctions. The US and USSR were never at war that's why it was the cold war. India and Pakistan have normalcy as core parts of their ceasefire terms from the most recent scuffle (which never did escalate to all our war). Funny you bring up Iran who the US never declared war on but do you know where they aren't allowed travel by the American government, the DPRK because they are at war with them. Please educate yourself and grow up trolling is unbecoming once you mature past 12.
Excellent point, Qin Shi Huang's Shlong
this implies that you're a minor
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it's bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you're going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
I am totally open to looking beyond western sources. Do you have a link to a non-western translation of North Korean criminal law?
it's in her linktree; the video says so. did you even watch the video?
it's starting to feel like you're being willfully ignorant here.
Genuinely, I do not see that in her linktree. She links to this document for information about North Korea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/edit?tab=t.0
I do not see a translation of North Korean criminal law in the document.
she doing her live stream on twich right now as she does almost every day; ask her for this specific one.
https://www.twitch.tv/madelinependleton
Why do you say so? Who is this law applied to other than violent criminals?
"treason against the state, such as":
1 implies that escaping to another country is a betrayal of the state. 2 and 3 involve no violent criminal acts. 4 isn't violent, although it is the only item on the list that might make sense.
I replied to another comment but to reiterate
This is categorically false it states if you commit treason and then escape it is a crime. The key word being AND.
I think I found the original on https://www.unilaw.go.kr/bbs/selectBoardList.do?bbsId=BBSMSTR_000000000021&bbsSubId=008 (number 5 "형법")
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
edit
"공민" meaning "citizen," suffixed with "이" probably marking the the noun as the subject."조국" meaning "motherland," suffixed with "을" "indicates the future intention of the subject."
"배반" means "betrayal, treachery, [or] treason," suffixed with "하고" meaning "and" or "with."
"다른" means "different, [or] other."
"나라" means "country," suffixed with "로" meaning "to, [or] toward."
It is presumably "도망쳤거" although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with "도망" that all mean "to flee, to escape." Presumably suffixed with "나" I think meaning "or"
"투항" meaning "surrender"
So a very literal translation might be something like "citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender" ... and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
Based on my extremely limited Korean skills, your translation seems to be correct in conveying intention, though there may be context or subtext I don't understand.