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nK bAd!!!
(lemmy.ml)
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this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2026
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Thanks for the link. The source doesn't really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
From the Article 63 of this 2015 criminal law document:
This doesn't sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
They absolutely are. I met more than one during my many years in university.
You very clearly misread this. It's a crime to commit treason and then escape. AND. "escaping" to another country is not a crime.
Do you have a take on 2 and 3
I know you didn't ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it's a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Section 34 of the Army Act 1950
and so on.
Are you suggesting that these laws only apply during active service in the military?
No that's not at all what I said.
The examples you site as comparable to 2 are military laws.
Surrender specifically is a combatant concept (defecting and espionage are not), non-combatants don't surrender under military law, they migrate or seek asylum. E.g. to surrender you must be a combatant in this case an active service member.
Sure, but in a country with universal conscription I'm not sure that's exclusive to the military context.
Universal conscription doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It's simply a mandatory service term, not permanent combatant status. Much like in the ROK, Thailand, etc., eligible citizens serve a set period then return to civilian life, they aren't subject to surrender laws before or after their term.
I understand this but am not familiar with the specifics. In Israel, for example, I know people remain on reserve duty long past their conscription period.
This isn't relevant anyway the fact is the laws you posted are seemingly entirely normal laws that are common around the world, and you were wrong that they aren't allowed to travel abroad by the government.
How is that not relevant? If people are in reserve services presumably this law would apply to them.
No reserves are not active combatants unless called upon just like in every country that has reservese (I can't think of one that doesn't). And even if it did the law itself as written is perfectly inline with international norms the fact they have universal conscription or a possible large reserve force doesn't change that.
It looks like North Korean citizens enter service for ten years, and stay in reserve for another 30. Presumably we agree that this law prevents them from seeking asylum in South Korea until at least the end of that ten year period, which is pretty restrictive. I don't see any reason to believe it wouldn't also continue into the reserve period or even after, especially since the law is written as a law applying to "citizens" assuming the translation is correct.
Because surrender has a specific meaning that requires the person in question be an active combatant. The law applies to citizens as it cover this but also espionage and defection which do not require this caveat.
Look, even if it doesn't apply to reserve force members, the claim that North Koreans are free to leave the country is at best misleading if they have to wait until they are 30 years old.
That's a disgustingly bad faith interpretation of what is said and is patently false. They have laws surrounding surrender that are inline with international norms same with defection and espionage none of these apply to leaving legally as you would know if you went to university in China plenty of non 30 year olds learning there. Citizens of the DPRK are permitted to travel by the government it's the UN sanctions stopping them travelling beyond China and Russia.
The core question isn't whether they can study in China, it is whether they can freely cross the border into South Korea to seek asylum.
First off no. That was not the core question. You said:
The answer is yes they are permitted. Despite how you attempt to twist what the law says and what we were talking about to dodge this fact.
Secondly obviously you can't move to a hostile power during wartime that's called defecting. No country on Earth currently or has ever allowed that.
Are you trolling?
I'm not trolling. This is what people claim when they say people can't leave the country. Debunking this claim without acknowledging that the core idea is true is dishonest.
I am pretty sure that people traveled between the US and the USSR in both directions during the cold war. Indians and Pakistanis can travel back and forth. Heck, Americans can go to Iran right now if they can figure out a way to.
If you wish to continue to troll I think we should end this here. Citizens of the DPRK are allowed to travel (just not defect to a country they are at war with) what stops them is visa refusals due to UN sanctions. The US and USSR were never at war that's why it was the cold war. India and Pakistan have normalcy as core parts of their ceasefire terms from the most recent scuffle (which never did escalate to all our war). Funny you bring up Iran who the US never declared war on but do you know where they aren't allowed travel by the American government, the DPRK because they are at war with them. Please educate yourself and grow up trolling is unbecoming once you mature past 12.
Excellent point, Qin Shi Huang's Shlong
this implies that you're a minor
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it's bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you're going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
I am totally open to looking beyond western sources. Do you have a link to a non-western translation of North Korean criminal law?
it's in her linktree; the video says so. did you even watch the video?
it's starting to feel like you're being willfully ignorant here.
Genuinely, I do not see that in her linktree. She links to this document for information about North Korea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/edit?tab=t.0
I do not see a translation of North Korean criminal law in the document.
she doing her live stream on twich right now as she does almost every day; ask her for this specific one.
https://www.twitch.tv/madelinependleton
Why do you say so? Who is this law applied to other than violent criminals?
"treason against the state, such as":
1 implies that escaping to another country is a betrayal of the state. 2 and 3 involve no violent criminal acts. 4 isn't violent, although it is the only item on the list that might make sense.
I replied to another comment but to reiterate
This is categorically false it states if you commit treason and then escape it is a crime. The key word being AND.
I think I found the original on https://www.unilaw.go.kr/bbs/selectBoardList.do?bbsId=BBSMSTR_000000000021&bbsSubId=008 (number 5 "형법")
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
edit
"공민" meaning "citizen," suffixed with "이" probably marking the the noun as the subject."조국" meaning "motherland," suffixed with "을" "indicates the future intention of the subject."
"배반" means "betrayal, treachery, [or] treason," suffixed with "하고" meaning "and" or "with."
"다른" means "different, [or] other."
"나라" means "country," suffixed with "로" meaning "to, [or] toward."
It is presumably "도망쳤거" although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with "도망" that all mean "to flee, to escape." Presumably suffixed with "나" I think meaning "or"
"투항" meaning "surrender"
So a very literal translation might be something like "citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender" ... and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
Based on my extremely limited Korean skills, your translation seems to be correct in conveying intention, though there may be context or subtext I don't understand.