319
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
319 points (93.2% liked)
World News
39021 readers
1424 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I despise the government of Israel, and everyone who supports it, but killing civilians is not acceptable. I don't care about dead military personnel, soldiers are a legitimate target, but civilians? Th fuck, Hamas, THE FUCK.
This is what Hamas is, what they believe, what they do. They're religious extremists who want genocide, and the only thing that's stopping them is their physical inability to make it happen.
Tbf it is also what israel is doing in retaliation. Both sides are absolutely terrible
They're going to eliminate the threat. Which is going to mean hundreds or thousands of deaths. But Hamas knew that. They hide behind civilians to try to make Israel kill them, so they can get more recruits. It's an intentional strategy. I'm not really interested in people both sidesing this. It's a dishonest tactic intended to excuse the actions of monsters.
I have many criticisms of Israel, but they do not wish a genocide. Hamas does. There is no both sides. Hamas must be eradicated, and if the Palestinians won't do it, Israel will, and the Palestinians in Gaza will have no one to blame but themselves for all the pain that process will involve.
In the same breath you're expecting Israel to cause thousands of civilian deaths you talk about how it's wrong to excuse the actions of monsters. At best we can hope the "kills thousands of civilians" is bundled up in your tidy "I have criticisms".
Hamas is ultimately causing those deaths by forcing the war and then hiding among civilians. It's unfortunate that Israel doesn't have magic powers and cannot eliminate these monsters without civilian casualties, but the only way for the Palestinians in Gaza to be free from threats caused by Hamas is to kick Hamas out.
Shit sucks, I get it, but life is a bitch and if you support terrorists you can't be surprised if the people they attack don't just bend over and take it up the ass.
The exact same words could be applied to Israel.
Nah. They don't support genocidal terrorists. If Israel wanted a genocide against Palestinians, it would happen.
They're engaged in terror and are actively engaged in ethnic cleansing. That it's a slow grind rather than a fast act that would shock the world doesn't change what it is.
Israel's doing a terrible job of ethnic cleansing, then. Lmfao
What a stupid comment.
Check population numbers of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs
Thanks for proving you have no idea what genocide actually means.
An attempt to eliminate a racial or cultural group of people, generally via either forced deportation or killing.
Since neither Israeli Arabs or Palestinians are seeing population declines, there's no attempt at genocide going on.
I didn’t mean the google definition. I mean the definition used within political science (which I have a degree in) that is used to distinguish war from genocide. I was hoping you’d assume as much but disappointed again. There has been a decline in fertility rates in Palestinians in Gaza, West Bank, and Palestine. Furthermore there has been a decline in education of the same groups as well as a large difference in COVID response when compared to Israelis. These are just a few examples of what educated people talk about when they speak about the beginnings of genocide of the Palestinian people.
"Not the actual definition, MY definition!"
No I literally explained. The definition and criteria through political science. Not the laymen’s definition. Laymen.
So not the actual definition, you mean one you made up
Nope. I explained in my comment. The one used in political science, not the laymen’s definition. However by all means continue to be wrong, it doesn’t matter to me if you can’t wrap your head around what’s going on.
Uh huh okay
And what is this definition of genocide which you feel Israel meets
You aren’t very clever dawny, my comment gives three examples. Limiting education, healthcare, and therefore fertility. All are part of the larger criteria for a violent conflict being more than just a war, but a genocide. Change your name to Laymendawny.
......k
Israel doesn't occupy Gaza. If their healthcare and education is limited, it's by their own government. Which is Hamas.
And, also, even if what you said WAS true, reducing education tends to INCREASE fertility, Mister "I have a political science degree"
You are just making shit up. Education decreasing does not increase fertility. Nor is hamas the Palestinian government. Why do people insist on talking out their asses about things just to look to be knowledgeable on a subject.
Although you are right. This is something I have a degree in so yes I will correct people spreading misinformation. I’m not some guy with an opinion. I’d love to talk to you about something you have a degree in. It’s clearly not this.
You don't have a degree in political science if you don't know basic shit like the fact that Hamas is the Gazan government.
At best, you did poli sci 101.
we weren’t talking about the Gazan government were we? We were talking about the Palestinian government. Two completely different things. Work on your reading comprehension. I think this is more than just laymendawny…dummydawny has a ring to it though no? It just fits.
Why would we talk about a government that doesn't control Gaza lmfao
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about
What kind of people live in Gaza? Palestinians. You can talk about whatever you want. I’m talking about the government representing the people who have been forced to live in Gaza. It’s really not that hard to follow what I’m saying. Is English your first language?
I feel bad for people that know you in real life. Lemm.ee’s most insufferable smoothbrain.
The government which represents Gaza is Hamas. Fatah doesn't control Gaza.
it doesn’t seem like you know what criteria makes something a genocide. Either that or you are just bias.
Lmao
In a country with mandatory military service, I disagree that soldiers are a legitimate target as a blanket statement. As the rich and powerful wage wars, it's the poor and those with limited options who die.
In the same vein, would that not make all Israeli citizens (except those under 18) semi legitmate targets since they're trained military personal and potential combatants?
That's what I'm talking about. They don't get a choice. They are required to train. I think that's disingenuous to say they are guilty by what is simply existing there.
I'd say the same if true for the other side about mandatory military service.
Shouldn't we put the onus of responsibility on Israeli's leadership and all that support this kind of ruling which blurs the lines between civilian and combatant?
It doesn't help that Israel uses its military to protect and bolster settlers in plain clothes as they commit terrorism against the indigenous populations. In a sense, Israel is using its noncombatant civilian population as a "human shield" as sorts because they know that Palestinian resistance groups lack the luxury to sift through potential targets because time and technology is limited, and the risks are sky high. Perhaps, this was done by design to force everybody to have a stake in the conflict, whether they wanted to or not.
No, I think target identification and official uniforms are key to any state military.
With the acknowledgement that the current attacks are mostly along the Gaza border, where do the West Bank settlers fall in that dichotomy? Because they're not just passive citizens of an oppressive nation, they're very much a participant in the oppression. And on the other side, military service in Israel is compulsory. There are soldiers who didn't want to be soldiers and think occupying the West Bank is wrong that are in that set of legitimate targets. Maybe it just sucks to be them and they should have tried harder to pursue a non-military service option, but it's not an easy sort where uniform = agent of oppression and civilian = neutral third party.
Settlers moving into occupied territories blur the line. They are neither fully civilian, nor clearly military. Something in between. They fulfill a strategic role, following and protected by armed forces. They also fulfill a strategic role for the negotiation table. And I guess they all know they run a greater risk, if alone for being closer to the frontlines.
The military is the main tool of oppression and as such is a valid target. The individual soldier might not be the issue but the military in its entirety. Of which said soldier is a part of. The individual soldier simply doesn't matter. And that has been the case in every war that was ever fought. The individual does not matter.
Seems like the Israeli military is a good shield against people fighting "oppression" by slaughtering random innocents at a music festival and stating their goal as eradicating all Jews from the "river to the sea."