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this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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What a genuinely stupid take. There is absolutely no question that governments have ignored intelligence, or allowed attacks to occur in order to bolster support for military engagements from the general public.
Seriously, how naive do you have to be to suggest that is a conspiracy theory or misinformation? We know the Bush administration ignored warnings from the CIA of impending attacks by Al Qaeda prior to 9/11. Whether you chalk that up to malice or incompetence is ultimately irrelevant when it led to a quagmire that has shaped decades of US foreign policy and military action.
If you don't think it is even worth discussing if far right crypto-fascist authoritarian like Benjamin Netanyahu is willing and able to let his own people die because the means justify the ends then you are not a serious interlocutor.
There is a difference between QUESTIONING a narrative and ASSERTING a cause or motivation.
Are you actually suggesting that there is no appropriate time in which to question if there is institutional corruption or an organized conspiracy within the government?
The difference is that you have absolutely zero evidence (circumstantial or otherwise) that would lead you to raise this question about me in good faith or engage in such loaded speculation.
The same cannot be said for government level inaction or malice that leads to the deaths of its own citizens in order to justify its own ends. We have MOUNTAINS of direct evidence that this can and does happen.
Just because SOME people make illogical leaps into conspiracy theory naval gazing does not mean that we just shouldn't question the transactional nature of any government narratives when bad things happen.
Stupid people are going to have stupid ideas regardless, and that should not stop the rest of us from maintaining our skepticism and using common sense when evaluating the progression of history as it is unfolding before us.
YOU ARE THE ONE CONFLATING THESE THINGS.
JESUS H FUCKING CHRIST, Nobody ever said it was a "false flag" you absolute fucking goon. All these conspiracy buzzwords were entered into the conversation or equation BY YOU. You are attempting to place the "tinfoil hat" on everyone's head, and then screaming SEE I GOT YA.
No, no you didn't. You are just arguing in bad faith because for whatever reason that is your modus operandi.
You're the only one here making that leap though.
My comment only highlights his history of doing things like this, and several times I say I don't think he was involved.
@Silverseren only says that the obviousness of the build-up makes more people wonder if netanyahu knew - which of course it does. They don't say he did either.
There will be conspiracy theories whether there is anything to base them on or not.
It's definitely reasonable to discuss whether Netanyahu was involved in something that benefits him and he is known for. As I said, at the moment it looks unlikely to me that he was. But come on! He has motive, means, priors and it's great timing for him personally. Acknowledging that all that is true doesn't mean agreeing to a vast web of conspiracy. All that is true but it it can still be a legit intelligence failure.
Uhhh, okay well which is it then? One second you say it is totally unreasonable to question, and the next you are actively agreeing that you would not be surprised if the government had allowed this to happen. I'm sure even you can see the hypocrisy in that.
I don't recall ever suggesting that there was, nor did the OP of this chain.
I'm willing to give you a pass on this point because I think this is probably true. However, let's not also act like the government doesn't intentionally muddy the waters and paint anything that is counter to their chosen narrative as conspiracy theories anyway...
That is entirely the point isn't it? The government & intelligence community are fully aware of this phenomenon, and use it to their advantage as one of their main tactics to either squash or foment dissent depending on their objectives.
The truth has already been eroded to such a degree that whoever controls the largest & fastest means of information dissemination is able to control the narrative. It takes people who are willing to entertain other perspectives to weed through the bullshit in order to eventually land at something that more closely APPROXIMATES the truth.
Wow, this is such a laughable conflation that I don't even know what to say about it really. Yes, there are morons who think that way, but I don't think anybody in this discussion is one of them as far as I can't tell. So, let's stick to higher level discourse that can be potentially productive.
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "does not compute"?
Ah, interesting! I personally have no moral qualms with discussing possibilities.
But it's baseful speculation, based on Netanayahu's past actions.
He intentionally dialed up tensions as recently as the first round of protests against eliminating judicial independence.
A more apt anology would be if I was convicted sex offender and suddenly there were hundreds and hundreds of molested children, and people started "just asking questions" about whether I was involved. It's unlikely that I would have done something on that scale - I'm not a priest. But it's not a bad faith argument to discuss whether I could be involved.
I think you're mistaking some noncommittal discussion of the reality of politics in that region with a known bad faith argument.