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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2023
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Did they really though, or is this just propaganda?
People trusting the IDF in 2023 is something I'll never understand.
Their kneejerk reaction has always been to claim theyre the victim and their actions are 100% justified.
So now, even when it might be true, there's no way I'd ever trust their word on it.
They're like real life "boy that cried wolf".
More than 700 Palestinian children and more than 400 women have been killed in the last 8 days by Israel, this is far from self defence or proportional.
Edit: Israel has now inflicted over 2000 deaths and injured over 9000 others
A state doesn't have this right but when we talk about the right to self defence for individuals proportionality is very important. Most countries would not allow you to claim self defence from a mugging if you decapitated the attacker and sent the head to their family.
Also if you're both siding a genocide you're either misinformed or for some reason siding with fascism.
If you are calling for peace without removing the genocidal state then you are just calling for a continuation of the genocide.
Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don't get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.
Israel is breaking international law by occupying and attacking Palestine. But most countries choose to look away and even directly support the genocidal state.
This is like saying both sides are bad between the SS and resistance fighters because resistance fighters also committed war crimes.
If you view WW2, Ukraine-Russia war, or SA apartheid as one sided then you are a hypocrite to not apply the same thinking here.
Do the Geneva conventions say anything about raping teenage girls as a method of resistance? What do they say about burning babies as a method of resistance? What effect did you think Hamas was going for when they brought a couple hundred Israeli civilians back and didn't offer or suggest any terms for their release? Would you tie a family together so you could kill them together, if you were in their situation?
See, because here, I thought that nobody anywhere had the right to target and torture civilians, and that there was no conceivable way that would lead to peace or any concessions that might actually help Palestinian people. Here, I thought that terrorists committing terrorism with the intent of provoking war might be a bad thing, I guess I'm just biased into thinking that burning civilians alive is maybe not the greatest idea.
All those claimes are unverified I'll wait a couple of weeks before we get the actual truth from the Israeli state.
All evidence including eye witness accounts from Israeli survivors reported that resistance fighters treated them humanely.
All hostage deaths so far have been caused by Israeli bombing.
500 civilians were just blown up in a hospital yesterday by Israel, do you not think they deserve their human rights? Or do you not consider them civilians?
Do you even consider them to be human?
Let's pick the first one. Perhaps you don't think the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants counts as "verification," or this video of a passed-out hostage in her underwear but what about the forensic evidence of rape? Is that good enough for you? And of course, you're not going to give any credence to the multiple terrorist interrogations that confirmed they rape their captives, even babies, to "dirty" them so they won't get into heaven, or Netanyahu or Biden's accounts of the evidence they've seen, but certainly multiple eyewitness accounts of the nova festival count for something?
Before you answer: think, have you said, before, that we should believe women? Is denying claims of rape a regular habit of yours when the victims aren't Jewish? Do you need video footage of the rape occurring? Will you not believe it until you personally test a hostage with a rape kit?
By the way, it's hard to find these videos because, while Hamas uploaded plenty of them to social media, they did that as an act of terror, and most news media is not setting out to terrify you. Do you really want to see a baby's corpse burnt up on the ground?
How dare you?
Does this family look like they're being treated humanely? Is it humane to force a boy to go around baiting other families out of their homes on threat of death?
[what about parading Shani Louk around after hving raped her](the Hamas video of Shani Louk being paraded around Gaza with bloody sweatpants](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelWarVideoReport/comments/174r2ae/israeli_woman_ziptied_and_with_bloody_pants/))? What about the other hostage from above?
how about indoctrinating young children into Islam, is that humane treatment?
Again, this is all from videos Hamas released. We might have more accounts of how hostages were treated once they start releasing hostages or putting them in contact with the outside world.
They also refuse access to the Red Cross and don't allow hostages any means of communication with family, both of which are additional war crimes, even if the hostages weren't civilians—maybe they will, eventually, but seeing as they did not in the case of Gilad Shalit, for over five years, I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
(I continue to debunk your misinformation below, no need to respond with more lies)
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-beeri-hostages-killed-intl-hnk/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/09/israel-hamas-hostage-death/
Ugh. Have you been paying attention to any of the news at all, outside of extremists' Instagram stories?
OSINT analysts say it was a misfire.
Israel released drone footage and audio of Hamas agents from a wire tap, but I suppose you won't believe the video or audio.
US intelligence confirms the misfire theory as well, if you care. Plenty of detail in their assessment as well.
The only evidence I've seen that it wasn't a misfire, besides bare claims from Hamas that it was an Israeli air strike (that mysteriously didn't feel like leaving a crater), is an Al Jazeera journalist on Twitter theorizing that it might have been a heat-seeking anti-air missile that exploded a rocket in the air, and another heat-seeking missile that instead locked onto a generator or some other target near the hospital.
Do you? Or are they just pawns for you to use to try to demonize Israel?
Again none of that has been properly verified by a third party.
Both Israel and Hamas have been guilty of lying in the past and pushing propaganda and misinformation.
If you believe what western media is saying currently about the hospital then I have a story about 40 beheaded babies to sell to you.
Again you're telling on yourself when you say indoctrination into Islam is bad. Lot's of islamaphobia for someone who would probably cry antisemitism if anyone talked shit about the Jewish faith.
I gave you like 37 links, asshole, almost all of them from third parties. Nobody here is going to see all those links and think, "well, none of it has been verified by... uh... by..." and then get confused and just assume what you're saying makes any sense.
Convenient that you won't believe a single thing in a language you can read, huh?
Indocrtrinating prisoners into any belief system is bad. You don't own your hostages, they're fucking people. It's especially bad to indoctrinate children. How stupid are you?
You mentioned biden having seen photos, the Whitehouse walked back on those claims.
I don't have to see videos but if you want me to believe it then a relatively independent 3rd party like the UN should have investigated it.
Again with the islamaphobia, the west wouldn't bad an eyelid if prisoners converted from Islam to Christianity or Judaism.
On the topic of children I think it's much worse to force children to live in a large scale ghetto with the threat of death every day and deny them food and water.
I leave you with this my friend https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyilpH5uv_Q/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I wish you well.
no, I didn't.
When?
"There's no evidence if I don't look at the evidence! I promise, the evidence doesn't exist, and I can prove it by declaring that I don't want to believe it exists."
Then why haven't they?
of course they would! what the fuck are you talking about? That's extremely evil!
For what it's worth, Jews try to talk you out of converting, we don't impose our religion on anybody at all. And people view missionaries as kind of evil even though they do lots of charitable work, because they're doing it all to creepily convert people. But taking little children as hostages and forcing them to change their beliefs is incredibly evil. They would not give the kids water otherwise! The kids do not want to be converted!
If somebody forced you to convert to a different religion, if they held you prisoner and denied you water until you agreed to start your conversion, and they posted video on social media bragging about how they made you do it, would you say "yeah, they treated me humanely?" Fuck no.
Ah, so finally, you agree that Hamas are the villains.
You in the comment with all the links
From this article
Nice how you completely glossed over the word ghetto.
Did you even watch the video I linked?
Only if you believe it's collective punishment. I've argued that cutting off electricity and similar actions are not intended as punishment at all, it's intended to reduce the rocket-making capabilities of Hamas and PIJ as they actively use every resource at their disposal to make and fire rockets.
Ah yes grid electricity that is totally necessary for production of explosives and turning off doesn't disproportionately affect all the people in hospitals that require it to live.
It absolutely is collective punishment no matter the intent. The general public suffer.
Way to act like a propogada mouthpiece for a genocidal state.
Israel supplied about half of Gaza's electricity. They do not need more than the other half to run a hospital and a desalination plant. Hamas has been stealing all the fuel it can to create rockets and support other offensive capabilities. They aren't struggling to produce enough electricity because they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity, they're struggling because Hamas is literally taking it from them.
From Wikipedia, their power comes from:
Power plant use fossil fuels, but Hamas has been stealing the fuel they have reserved, so yes, the power plant is operating below capacity. If they wanted to run the hospital or the desalination plant as badly as they wanted to fire rockets vaguely in the direction of Israel, they would.
Way to act like a total dumbass who hasn't spent more than five minutes researching the situation and refuses to learn.
It wouldn't be the current blockade by Israel that has caused the fuel shortage?
And Egypt?
Again, they had fuel stores, Hamas stole the fuel.
I mean the Wikipedia article you linked only mentions relying on Israel for desiel fuel.
On the other hand even if Egypt provided fuel to Palestine, Israel has been bombing the crossing so not even humanitarian aid is getting through.
a crossing has been bombed. There's no evidence whatsoever that Israel bombed it, nor any real reason to think Israel bombed it TBH. meanwhile, Hamas and other Arab nations frequently insist that nobody leave Gaza. Gee, I wonder why they're so quick to blame Israel...