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[-] usernamesaredifficul@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

I read something about Marxism and Confuscianism a while back and I think they started trying to merge them in the 80s

[-] WayeeCool@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wasn't the 1980s but even further back in the 1920s. This TV show in the screenshot is actually an essay written in 1925 by a Chinese socialist thinker and this meme of China claiming Marx was Chinese is an out of context mistranslation.

A commenter on a post where this was posted earlier pointed out that Diderot and other enlightenment thinkers admired Qing China's civil service, and that these thinkers (being part of a "radical" rather than mostly angloamerican "liberal" intellectual tradition), would influence Kant, Hegel, Marx and Engels.

In 1925 the Communist writer Guo Moruo published a short story entitled ‘Marx Enters a Confucian Temple’. It tells of a conversation between Marx and Confucius, in which Marx is asked to explain his idea of a Communist society, Marx does so, after which Confucius is unable to contain himself, clapping his hands and crying out: ‘Your ideal society and my world of datong coincide with each other’. Thereupon, Confucius quotes the text from Liji:

"When the Great Way [dadao] was practiced, all-under-heaven was as common [tianxia wei gong]. They chose men of worth and ability [for public office]; they practiced good faith and cultivated good will [xiumu]. Therefore, people did not single out only their parents to love, nor did they single out only their children for care. They saw to it that the aged were provided for until the end, that the able-bodied had employment, and that the young were brought up well. Compassion was shown to widows, orphans, the childless, and those disabled by disease, so that all had sufficient support. Men had their portion [of land], and women, their homes after marriage. Wealth they hated to leave unused, yet they did not necessarily store it away for their own use. Strength they hated not to exert, yet they did not necessarily exert it only for their own benefit. Thus selfish scheming was thwarted before it could develop. Bandits and thieves, rebels and traitors did not show themselves. So the outer gates [waihu] were left open. This was known as the period of the Great Unity [datong]"

In reply, Marx calls Confucius an old comrade (lao tongzhi) and observes, ‘Your opinion is completely consistent with mine.’

  • "Socialism with Chinese characteristics: Chapter 6: Seeking a Xiaokang Society, or, Socialist Modernisation" - Roland Boer (2021) pages 144 - 158.
[-] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

To add to what you've said, the classical economists can ultimately trace their economic theory back to Confucius via the physiocrats. The chain is Confucius -> Confucians during the early Han dynasty -> Francois Quesnay -> Adam Smith -> David Ricardo -> Karl Marx. Also, laissez-faire is just the physiocrats translating and applying wuwei to state involvement in economics. Wuwei, however, has far more application than laissez-faire and means different things depending on the Chinese school of philosophy (Confucian, Daoist, Legalist).

[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also, laissez-faire is just the physiocrats translating and applying wuwei to state involvement in economics

This is kind of interesting

Because Laissez-faire vs State intervention was already a debate in Ancient Chinese empires.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourses_on_Salt_and_Iron

To the point of Daoism, it is kind of interesting that the ideology basically involved into Mohism, Legalism and Confucianism with the latter basically just out right copy the 2 formers. The case of Daoism fusing with Legalism (a kind of totalistic ideology) basically created Foucault's Panopticon

[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

A commenter on a post where this was posted earlier pointed out that Diderot and other enlightenment thinkers admired Qing China's civil service, and that these thinkers (being part of a "radical" rather than mostly angloamerican "liberal" intellectual tradition), would influence Kant, Hegel, Marx and Engels.

I'm pretty sure Enlightened Absolutism in the ""enlightened Era'''' is partly based on or hasardly coincident with the idealized ruler in Mohism and Confucianism

this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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