95
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by zephyreks@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

There's a ton of information coming out from a bunch of different sources and it's difficult to keep track of who's said what and who has evidence of what. This thread is to keep track of who's making what claims, who has what evidence, and discussion surrounding those.

For top-level comments, please separate into two categories:

Evidence (videos, facts, circumstantial evidence, etc.) that we can validate, invalidate, or provide supporting sources for

Claims (IDF, Hamas, Western media, etc.) that we can prove or disprove using current evidence

=== 2023-10-19 ===

It's established fact that Israel was operating aircraft near the hospital, that Israel was striking targets near the hospital, that Israel had indicated that they would strike the hospital, that Israel had striked the hospital in the past, and that Israel had targeted multiple hospital staff in the days leading up to the strike.

It's currently up to debate, but many indications suggest that Israel's message has changed multiple times. The initial claim was that the attack was on Hamas operatives within the hospital. The claim afterward was that this was a Hamas misfire (using demonstrably falsified audio evidence).

The videos show that a single large explosion triggered whatever happened, not a sequence of smaller explosions or secondary detonations. The video circulating of a Hamas rocket "misfire" is more indicative of a MANPADS launch given multiple comparable flight paths from other MANPADS. It's a clear usage of a multi-pulse rocket motor, something Hamas does not have domestic capability for but does have access to through Iranian MANPADS. An Iranian Misagh-2 fires a missile with less than 2kg of explosives and less than 20kg of total weight.

At this stage, my most likely conclusion is that the damage was the result of an airburst bomb.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

The only video from the ground that I assume is true is the one shot through the gate: https://nitter.net/washingtonpost/status/1714406243652272340, and its too short and dark to see/hear anything else. I cannot hear a second blast within two seconds, which I am leaning towards as the correct sequence. The 19:59 timestamped video does not appear to have this second blast, so I am leaning towards it being a different event. Very odd how similar the times are though.

[-] zephyreks@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

I think I agree. The AJ Arabic video has an explosion at 0:16 and another one at 0:19 (presumably at the hospital), which would mean that this video caught the 0:19 explosion (maybe triggered to record by the 0:16 explosion?)

This video ends before confirmation that the following strike from the 19:59 video didn't occur.

[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, the static 19:59 video doesn't show the second blast 2-3 seconds after the first like the AJ Arabic video does (but maybe it was obscured?), but it does show a second blast 12 seconds later. I wish the AJ Arabic video was continuous, because if it too showed another blast about 12 seconds after the first, it could be the same one.

What is quite odd though, is the difference between what the IDF videos are claiming and what the Israeli TV video is claiming, which I added after you commented:

The 18:59 timestamped video does not show the single rocket(?) depicted in the two videos the IDF posted, or in the 18:59 static shot. Maybe its too low quality to be seen, but odd nonetheless. The IDF videos seem to claim that this single rocket was the misfire, but the Israeli tv show seems to claim it was one of the rockets from the salvo.

[-] zephyreks@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

I'm very skeptical on the misfire argument simply because the sheer number of strikes in the AJ Arabic video would suggest that Hamas was shelling Gaza

[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Oh I am as well. The proof provided in these videos is inconclusive and appear to point to different claimed misfires.

[-] zephyreks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Looking at the explosion itself (through the metal gate), it looks like a rather large munition. I'm not convinced it's caused by gasoline because I'm fairly sure a similarly sized gasoline explosion would need much more gas than fits in a few sedans.

For example, a jerry can (20L) "explosion" : https://youtu.be/jc3BIdbwGuE?si=2ukHqRUMTC_J9DqC

And a jerry can bonfire: https://youtu.be/eS4VDyE_PWs?si=KzOZMof2J9AHgUEO

Not even close to the same scale.

[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

mhm a gas fire/explosion doesn't seem to check out. But the claim seems to be less that cans of gas, or even a gas generator, exploded, but that unspent fuel from the rocket exploded.

[-] zephyreks@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

If so, unspent fuel from the rocket looks like it had a larger explosive potential than the rocket itself. Maybe that's fair? I'm not exactly a munitions expert.

[-] Parsani@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not either, so I can't really speculate either way

this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
95 points (100.0% liked)

news

23532 readers
647 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS