381
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
381 points (98.5% liked)
News
22896 readers
4057 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
If we gave people who don't want to be here anymore access to safe, effective, painless, suicide, desperate people wouldn't have to resort to desperate methods of opportunity that can harm others.
We aren't willing to be a society. We could not be more clear on that point. Visit one of your local tent cities where we leave defective capital batteries to die of exposure and police harassment if you're still hazy on this fact. We aren't willing to help the struggling in anything but empty rhetoric about how, lol, compassionate we consider ourselves. The least we could do is offer an out that doesn't cause a scene or externalized death. Hell, turn it into an industry let our capitalist owners profit more off of it, win/win.
Inb4 "this bastard tried to kill others, they deserve no mercy!" yeah, when you're suicidal, you aren't exactly able to think outside your own pain, even more reason not to continue to let death by gun purchase be the current gold standard of American suicide.
While I agree that most of the talk about helping those struggling is empty I think it's a bit disingenuous to imply suicide by airplane was the only option available to him. This happened in America were there are almost as many guns as people. Hurting others during a suicide attempt by trying to crash a plane is a choice.
We definitely need better mental health resources but killing 83 other people wasn't his only option.
As stated, when you're suicidal, you aren't really looking beyond your own pain and opportunities to end it. It's easy for someone who is doing all right to tell someone in white hot anguish what they should have done.
Your response is indemic of the crisis of empathy in this country. It's easy for a rich person to tell a poor person what they should have done instead of stealing. Our people much prefer the easy way of casting judgment and advocating maximum punitive vengeance so that they can play pretend we live in a black and white, just nation and world, where everyone earned what they have and the suffering did something to deserve it.
The hard thing would trying to understand for what drove one of our people to this madness to begin with, and maybe even help. But that would be extremely un-American. Hoo boy, lets deep fry his ass boy howdy! Gonna get assed raped in prison itellyouwhat that'll teach him to... value the sanctity of the lives of himself and others?
If he's not thinking clearly, why he would he choose your proposed suicide method? It's a more rational choice but like you've said this isn't a decision being made rationally.
The same reason that people like him choose methods that can fail by being inturrupted, by failure of method, or by possibility of permanent disability/disfigurement rather than death.
Certainty.
The offer of going to an office with a guarantee of an end would stop the vast majority of other methods where one must overcome that lack of certainty to make the attempt. Even a gunshot to the head can and does fail, leaving matters significantly worse for the individual.
I'm not saying it would stop everyone, but it would stop a great many of desperate people from buying guns or running into traffic while in a bad place and potentially using it on someone they feel is the cause before themselves, or situations like this.
Some people want to go out loud, but that isn't the norm. The goal is usually just going out with a minimum of suffering, with the loudness of the act being a symptom of the person's opportunities for attempts, ie what they can and cannot access.
When I was suicidal many long years ago I researched suicide success rates and gunshot to the head only had about a 90% success rate.
That was way too low for me to feel comfortable with it.
Well fortunately we're going to have the opportunity to find out what he really was thinking, this time. Until that's released to the public, you don't know any more about it than the people you're shouting down. Since he chose such a specific method, and not on his own plane which would have been easier, there's reason to suspect it was a targeted attack on others. Being willing to die in the attempt is a step away from being suicidal. Would that all attempts at mass carnage were resolved with all lives saved, like this one.
Never been suicidal eh?
That's a bold assumption since you know nothing about me. It's also incorrect, I've just never tried to murder a bunch of other people too. Most people who commit suicide don't try to pair it with mass murder.
This America, buy a gun.
Or find a bridge.
Or Google the "best" ways and pick one.
This is something different. Either wannabe mass shooter who didn't think he had the skills to get the body count he wanted, or he wanted his name to stick around longer than the 30 secs that the names of shooters do these days, or he was mad at his employer and wanted to hurt them...or....
Point is, he didn't just want to kill himself, he wanted to do it while causing a standout mass casualty event.
Edit: I do want to add that it's at least possible he had an immediate acute psychiatric issue e.g. Schizophrenic break and thought the plane was full of aliens, or something along those lines.
What's your point? That mistakes happen? That some people are too unfamiliar with guns, or stupid, to kill themselves properly, so the solution is... crashing a commercial airliner?
No way he would have become a transport pilot with such psychological issues.
I agree that it's most likely he just wanted to kill a lot of people, along with himself.
But, late-onset schizophrenia is a thing and it appears in men during their 40s. I'm sure there are plenty of other psychological issues that either only appear later in life, or that some people are able to mask/hide. My point was that it's a possible explanation, not that it was the most likely one.
Edit: Looks like "acute psychiatric event" might be the most plausible explanation, at least according the FBI's current publicly available understanding of the incident.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/fbi-off-duty-alaska-pilot-declared-im-not-ok-then-tried-to-shut-down-engines/
“Defective Capital Batteries”. That’s good
Seriously, fuck the FAA.
They just recently allowed pilots to take anti-depressants ... except they're older medications that all have frequent unpleasant side effects like "inability to have an orgasm". ADHD -- tough shit, can't take those meds and keep your license. Any medication that "has an effect on the central nervous system" is banned apart from a short list.
All it does is encourage pilots to lie or forgo treating their very treatable conditions.
As someone with ADHD... What the fuck? Driving without my meds is much more dangerous because EVERY sensory input is jumping into my attention span. Much easier to focus on important things while on meds
It used to be you could have never been diagnosed with ADHD -- but don't worry! Now the rules say you just can't currently have ADHD or have taken medication for it in the past 4 years.
And yes, these rules also apply to private pilot licenses. That being said, how may professional pilots do you think have mild/moderate ADHD and have to "suck it up" because they want to keep their jobs?
Makes complete sense, especially considering you can have a pacemaker and still get cleared by an AME to fly.
Oh man, guess that anyone with ADHD should just try not having it if they want to be a pilot!
I want to believe that the rule is there to not bar people who were incorrectly diagnosed in the past but... I wouldn't put it past them to believe ADHD can be "cured" or "gotten over"
I don't want to agree with you, but I do.
I chose staring down ugly truths over the bliss of ignorance a long time ago. It's my core value, and I understand why most don't, it isn't a pleasant way to think or live.