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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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You’re right. With the numbers presented here, Israel is definitely acting worse right now.
These two groups of people are at war. One of them are using guerrilla terrorist tactics to kill civilians, and the other is using their political sway and superior firepower to commit genocide.
There is no “equally bad”, but if you support the eradication of either side, you are a horrible person in my eyes.
Is there somewhere where I can read a bias free summary of this? I know it's been going for ages and I know Israel is known to use propaganda (like everyone else).
There's plenty of bad on both sides and I'm just lost. My personal history wants to root for freedom fighters but this sounds way worse than what my father and grandfather had to go through.
I'm spit. I wish someone could convince me kids weren't being slaughtered, civilians beheaded and raped... But I can't stomach those actions and give it a pass. When violence is the only action left, it doesn't warrant any and all types of violence. It's just fucked and I lost hope of getting a clear picture.
To clarify, not defending actions of Israel either. In case there were some doubts if I approve of genocide or not.
I can't stomach what Hamas had done too, really horrific what they did to those people. There is no excuse for that. So you can condemn them for that.
On the other side you can also condemn Israel for its response right now, because they're actually doing the same thing by bombing civilians indiscriminately. At this point, I'd rather have them go into those effing tunnels and fight their real enemy instead of civilians.
You don't have to be for or against something and it's okay to be split on this subject. Most people are.
What do you mean "right now"? Do you know how long Israel has been an oppresive apartheid state for?
Been doing a deep dive on this conflict for the past few weeks and I don’t think you’ll find many unbiased summaries. A lot of people have said good things about this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11961982-side-by-side
Tells the Palestinian narrative on the left hand side, and the Israeli narrative on the right hand side.
Thanks for this, looks interesting.
I would start by looking into how the Israeli state was formed in 1948. More specifically look up the Nakba. That will give you context for everything that comes after.
Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r21iN7JYu2Y
It's not perfect but it's a starting point.
Sometimes I do wish to see what would the death and destruction look like if Israel actually did not care about civilians and did all the things people here describe them doing. Luckily that will never happen, and Israel will continue to care about the safety of their own citizens, as well as the safety of the Palestinians Hamas is hiding behind to a much greater degree than Hamas ever cared for a human soul.
So you wish you could be more out and open with the genocide sometimes just to show the haters? That doesn't sound healthy.
"You don't even know how many we could be murdering!" said the supporter of the country whose people had previously suffered an unspeakable genocide.
No, I wish people like you spreading hate would stop ignoring the inconvenient facts instead of focusing purely at the numbers.
Haha, focusing at the 'numbers'. He doesn't even acknowledge they are HUMANS.
Yikes, that's a good point.
People like me? People who care about people? What do you mean people like me?
Oh those inconvenient facts that make Israel look an awful lot like the monsters they ran from a few decades ago... we seem to not be ignoring them very much, dunno what you are talking about.
I'm talking about inconvenient facts like Hamas hiding an entire compound under a hospital. How Israel is sending out warnings in 5 different ways before striking any target. How Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel civilian centers constantly. How Hamas has all these supplies stored up, yet people are starving. How truck after truck of aid, building supplies, and life necessities go into Gaza, yet mysteriously nothing gets better there.
No, none of that is ever mentioned. Instead you hear people parroting how Israel is "carpet bombing" Gaza, targeting civilians, and "trying to genocide Palestinians". Under the same breathe they wonder why the Israeli government ignores them after hearing this bullshit.
Perhaps it is because all we have heard for decades is the MSM parroting that Israel is the only victim here and how evil the Palestinians are. The Pro-Israel crowd is just a little surprised because there isn't blind support of their talking points and instead other facts are now being talked about that don't align with their propaganda.
Btw Israel isn't just trying to genocide the palestinians they are doing a pretty good job over the last 3 weeks. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/25/middleeast/satellite-images-gaza-destruction/index.html
Yep sure looks targeted and not like they are just demolishing whole communities. Get the fuck outta here with your bullshit.
Sorry, but Israel had the support of the entire world, even Muslims, and lost it within a week. Nobody to blame but themselves. They thought it was a blank cheque to just start killing anything and everything that moves.
If Israel cares so much, just go into the tunnels and fight your real enemies, you know where they are. Nope, they're just cowards at this point.
Oh yes, just send soldiers into the cramped enemy spaces. Sounds like a genius tactical maneuver.
Is killing thousands of children a genius tactical maneuver?
Ask Hamas hiding behind these children. They're perfectly okay with it.
Yeah, but they didn't bomb the children. That's why people hide behind children, so that you won't bomb them. If they know that conventional empathy is no longer effective as deterrence, wouldn't they probably not be hiding behind children anymore? Couldn't you just be killing children at this point and its just children?
That's why Hamas is making sure civilians can't leave the strike areas. They need to maximize the dead for their own propaganda.
Do you have evidence of this? If this is true then why even give evacuation orders?
They were hiding behind over three thousand children? That's the argument youre going to make? And Israel still hasn't gotten all of Hamas? Is Hamas just hiding under piles of children? How the fuck do you look at over 3,000 corpses of children and claim that a significant majority were actually just obscuring Hamas members, you fucking nutjob?
But with your perfect army and perfect tech and perfect iron Dome, why not? They're just animals and the hostages were dead the moment they crossed the border right? Right?
Unlike you, they're not stupid. That's why.