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Really shows where their priorities are, doesn't it?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
2465 points (98.5% liked)
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Source?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/john-fetterman-israel-position-explained.html
So basically, Fetterman believes that Israel can keep killing thousands of children as long as Hamas continues to exist.
That’s not call for genocide, but for destruction of Hamas, whose goal is destruction of the state of Israel, which is as close to call for genocide as it can get, and it is supported by action by targeting and killing civilians.
The problem is that Israel doesn't seem to give a fuck about civilian casualties. I'm all on board for wiping Hamas off the face of the earth, but shelling Gaza is not the way they should be going about it. There are way, way too many innocent people getting killed. If it was just Israel vs Hamas in a vacuum, no civilians, I'd support Israel. But this isn't happening in a vacuum and a lot of civilians on both sides of this conflict are getting hurt or killed. You could even argue that this conflict was started by Israel as a result of the hand they had in the creation of Hamas.
How would you destroy Hamas? Are you saying that Hamas can do what it did, and Israel just can’t try to destroy it because Hamas uses civilians as a shield?
That's a little disingenuous. It's a call for the destruction of Hamas through the means of repeatedly bombing a small, impoverished nation with no regard for who or what is destroyed.
Israel is using airstrikes on hospitals, mosques, and schools. Fetterman is supporting the country that is responsible for 5,000 civilian deaths, tens of thousands of people injured, and 600,000 displaced people. That doesn't sound like genocide to you? We should support bombing a country to rubble because of some terrorists that they created through their cruelty? They ration their food, their water, deny them access to shipments, deny aid, andn break agreements. Of course they created extremists.
When you support Israel's wanton destruction of an entire nation, you are supporting genocide.
It is entirely possible to oppose Hamas without supporting Israel.
Not when he literally says that we have to support Israel's destruction of Hamas.
I wasn’t referring to Fetterman.
Absolutely not, only one thing can be true at once, we have no room for nuance here.
(/s)
I only saw the first part of your comment in notifications, and I was about to go ham.
Standing down.
Crisis averted o7
Why are you saying “with no regards”? If Israel wanted to destroy civilians , as oppose to Hamas militants, the casualties would be way, way higher. Hamas uses civilians as shield, makes military hardware storages in those mosques, and other civilian buildings. Where is your outrage for that? And are you saying that Hamas can do, what it did, purposely target and cruelly kill 1400+ civilians, continue shooting rockets trying to hit civilians, and Israel should do nothing, because Hamas uses its own civilians as human shields?
They've literally leveled entire city blocks and neighborhoods, wtf are you talking about?
EDIT: And obviously I don't support what Hamas is doing, come on. Just that killing thousands of people via bombs is fucked up and not the best way to kill militants.
Honestly, do you think that Israeli deference force sees a civilian building and says “let’s down that building, because it looks like civilian and we can kill lots of people there!” or “we detected rocket launch from this location, let’s destroy the point, while minimizing civilian casualties”?
Seriously?
And then consider what Hamas is doing/has done for comparison. Answer the same questions for Hamas.
Yes, IDF knows that casualties are possible, and even likely, but they simply cannot stop just because Hamas uses human shields. Because then nothing would prevent Hamas to kill as many civilians as they want without ANY punishments, because they would always use human shields.
So genocide is okay in your eyes as long as a fraction of the people you bomb are terrorists? How would you feel if your loved ones died and you lost your entire neighborhood because someone living a few blocks away was a terrorist? You have no food, no water, and no home because a small percentage of the people in your neighborhood performed an action that you had no part of.
Is it worth the current death toll? Eight thousand dead in Palestine, 24 straight days of bombing, 29 journalists killed, and 3500 dead children is okay in your book because of some terrorists? That's not including the 21,000 people that were injured. 183,000 residential units, 221 education facilities, 24 ambulances, and 38 places of worship damaged or completely gone. 34% of hospitals on the Gaza Strip aren't functioning. Six thousand bombs in six days. That's the number dropped on Afghanistan in one year, and Afghanistan is 1800x bigger.
I understand that they are hiding behind civilians, but there is a middleground between letting Hamas run wild and threatening to turn Palestine into a deserted island.
I would feel horrible, and what is going on in Palistine is horrible, but in my opinion Hamas did have choice and Israel does not. Therefore, the horrible things that are happening right now are squarely Hamas fault. It would be Israel fault, if it targeted purposefully civilians, but it does not.
You can call it genocide, whatever, but it is Hamas that doing it with Israeli hands. Israel just can’t stop because of Hamas is using human shields. Because otherwise, Hamas would do again and again in future which would lead to even more wars, more people dying. Do you want this to be repeated each couple of years? Then yes, argue for Israel to stop.
And there it is. Fighting for survival, defending yourself, etc is one thing. "Punishment" is completely different.
Hamas removal is not punishment. Some people might want to kill for punishment reason, but that’s not what Israel is doing.
I'm surprised you got upvotes even with facts. The blind love and devotion for feterman here is kinda culty. The guy is a wealthy, silver spoon, nepo baby. But he puts on a hoodie so everyone here can get fooled into thinking he's an every man.
Yeah it's annoying to see him championed as a blue collar guy when he grew up in an affluent neigborhood and his dad was partner at an insurance firm.
I've from the city that fetterman is from. His position on Israel is a long-standing one and he believes in unequivocal and relentless support of the occupation, armament, and apartheid Zionist policies.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/john-fetterman-israel-position-explained.html
I disagree with his apparent unwavering support for the Israeli government, as it seems many other people also disagree.
Characterizing it as "calls for full-blown genocide of Palestinians" is disingenuous.
Call it whatever you want I guess but Israel is the one starving millions and cutting off fuel resulting in children drinking sea water and getting bombed to shit
They're wiping out entire neighborhoods via bombing for fuck's sake and the ground invasion hasn't even happened yet