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this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2023
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I don't see why calling for a ceasefire is such a non-starter. Everyone there can go back to work butchering each other more effectively if they are well rested.
The entire country of Israel wants to build back their military reputation for deterrence. Opposing political parties got together to back their military response. Plus, almost everyone in Israel knows someone killed or captured by Hamas, that's why it was 15 9/11s or whatever. There is no high minded worry about peaceful ideals when your kid was killed by Hamas.
I'm against all the killing and especially of civilians, I think the US should and is pushing for a ceasefire, but I also see why it isn't working. It's not because the administration isn't trying hard enough, it's because nothing will stop the fighting until Israel achieves at least some of its goal for destroying Hamas and building back the deterrence.
And israel will destroy hamas, much like all terrorist organizations have been destroyed in the past.
Errr... exactly what has the administration done? What consequences have there been for Israel, threatened or realized?
They got the 4hr pauses. The president went there. The Secretary of State went there. The land assault was pushed off for days in the beginning. They moved two carrier groups into the region to deter Hezbollah and Iran, and Iran has officially said they will not get involved.
They don't negotiate in public so obviously there is no example of threats, but there is evidence of an attempt at moderating the Israeli response, and in the past Biden's strategy has been to hug Israel in public to get as much as possible in private, something like agreeing to refuse to call for a ceasefire in public, as long as Israel does do the 4hr pauses. That very much reads to me as what the Admin achieved.
And since a ceasefire isn't on the table regardless of consequences right now due to Israeli domestic politics, a short 4hr daily ceasefire-in-all-but-name is a pretty big get.
So... trust them?
Use available information to make an educated guess. As opposed to your method of deciding that because the maximalist position has not been achieved, clearly nobody has done anything at all.
Lol, you mean doing anything at all? Didn't know that was a 'maximalist' position.
It's also because the administration isn't trying hard enough. Reagan stopped the bombing of West Beirut with a phone call. Biden should at least be able to get Israel to follow the rules of war if he threatens them with cutting aid. Also these are 1200 people in a population of 10 million. I find it very hard to believe that most people know someone who was killed or captured.
Yeah, but Biden knows that if he cuts aid, the vocal Jewish/Israel/Zionist lobby will freak the fuck out.
Who... cares? Why should zionists get more influence over American foreign policy than the rest of Americans?
Exactly. Why in the hell are we bending over backwards to make one group happy when most sentiment is moving in a different direction?
I don't understand why everyone in DC is so scared of Israeli lobbyists.
Makes you wonder what dirt Mossad has on any of our politicians.
Which in a roundabout way is an argument for term limits; higher turnover provides less opportunity for skeletons to pile up in closets to compromise any vestigal integrity they have after becoming a politician.
Well, unofficially, it's sort of recognised Ghislaine Maxwell's father was an Israeli spy.
So what's the catch?
Hamas’ popularity with the people and their allies is really low right now. A victory (cease fire) corrects that for them
And also your second part, it’s a lot easier for them to attack Israel if they aren’t expecting it
Israel and Palestine don’t gain anything from a ceasefire unless negotiations take place
Every side have their own agenda. Every now and then stars align.
If you go back 3-4 decades, you’ll notice a pattern.
I think it is because if the Israelis kill a lot of people in Gaza right now, they can later say it is because they were hot-headed and not planning things properly (which they should do anyways, so it doesn't really matter). If they stop now, and go back to attacking again later, they can't say that anymore.
Because why would Israel stop their genocide if they don't have to?
Conducting airstrikes isn't nearly as exhausting as getting hit by them.
Convince me that the US Government should help Hamas, which is what a ceasefire does.
No.
Well I guess you just answered why calling for a ceasefire is such a nonstarter lmao
No.
Why even type out your original comment?
Engaging with IDF sea lions on their terms is a waste of time. The point of the ceasefire is to relieve civilians in Gaza. Israel is about 10X worse than Hamas in terrorist terms by now. They have lost any moral authority they ever had.
There are other ways to relieve civilians. A ceasefire is a win for Hamas, which is why it is a non starter.
Well, I'm paying for it so I'm calling for a ceasefire
This guy is banking points on your stupidity, and even out-arguing you.
The other guy asked a question then refused to discuss his question There hasn't even been a discussion, let alone an argument.