59
Green Party split from group at centre of trans row
(www.bbc.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
59 points (100.0% liked)
news
23568 readers
683 users here now
Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.
Rules:
-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --
-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --
-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --
-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --
-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--
-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--
-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --
-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
We on the left seem to love fragmentation.
Kicking bigots out is a good thing actually.
TERFs can go pound sand.
Agreed. The reality is: The fringe right wing Tea Party took over the courts and local legislatures across the country by allying with anyone they could on the right (since they are literal Nazi’s it was easy for them) while we on the left got weaker than ever by enforcing a high (IMO reasonable but sadly untenable in this corrupt-ass country) standard of purity for every single person we even remotely associate with.
As a leftist, I totally get it. I’ve recently gotten to the point where the only person in the entirety of US Congress that I mostly trust is Rashida Tlaib. It’s tough to stomach but IMO this purity that we insist on also serves to defeat our own goals. We need to find a way to stand up for integrity (as we do) while also biting our lips and making pragmatic compromises with (admittedly) shitty people that we would otherwise despise. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this because I sound like a shitlib but honestly, we’re fucking losing the war against austerity because of our purity.
Sounds like Patsoc Larouche bull.
Not wanting to genocide a marginalized group is a basic tenent of being anything on "the left". I would question the good faith of anyone who drops a larger fight over discriminating others.
If anyone is doing "purity tests" it's the fascist assholes, patriarchy upholders, and ignoramouses who can't bother to read up on issues to toss marginalized groups under the bus. Oh we can't focus on X if it includes THOSE people. Ewww icky! Who cares if we criminalize them!
Hitler came after the trans and queers first. Never forget that.
We are in the middle of the 3rd Red Scare. That comes with it a lavender scare. a "moral panic" tied to the irrational fear of "communism" or "the enemy" (our economic competition but they sell it as "the enemy" because they understand the public is not going to give two shits about some investor having a childish tantrum due to foriegn resources not being given to them like the entitled brats they are)
They are exploiting general ignorance about transgender and queers in their youth as a culture war to defelct from doing anything for the people while they fuck them over for exploitative means and war profiteering. A lot of the same arguments against trans are the very same bullshit arguments they made agaisnt gays.
Years from now it will be looked down upon as a very shameful time and how could our society be such assholes and stupid people. We've been here before.
It doesn't need to be years from now, but our investor class is filled with fascists and sociopaths which are more than happy to chuck money and order their owned propaganda channels to whip up fears and watch us fight amongst ourselves.
Tell TERFs they are a bunch of ignorant assholes repeating the same lies and bullshit of the anti gay rights era. TERFs are not leftists. If they can not be educated then they can be tossed in the history bin. Conservative fucks are going to do their austerity shit with or without equality.
Throwing vulnerable minorities under the bus to appeal to the deffinitly genuine "we'd support you if you'd stop being mad at us for being racists and bigots" voting bloc
What a refreshing and original take that I've never heard before, especially from people who are deffinitly just not bigots
Trans rights are human rights, not some lofty idealistic purity test, ya bozo
Not sure if you’re doing a bit but you literally proved my point for me. I was saying:
to paraphrase: I am pro trans and obviously vehemently against anti trans people but this story also reminds me of why our numbers are so thin on the left.
Comrade knows exactly what your saying. The entire premise of us having actual tangable principals being some sort problem that needs to be solved is a reactionary framing of this to begin with.
the entire premise of us having actual tangable principals being some sort problem that needs to be solved is a reactionary framing of this to begin with.
The principles aren't the fucking problem. The people out there who represent people don't have any principles. Why do you want me to pretend this isn't true? Even fucking Bernie Sanders was calling for Palestinian blood.
I guess my main point comes back to the fact that we only have two choices (and I certainly haven't seen anyone sharpening their guillotine blades):
A.) Who the fuck should we vote for? (I've given up on electorialism)
B.) How many oligarchs do we need to guillotine?
"I'm a leftist, but I'm willing to debate the right of marginalized groups to exist"
"I didn't read what OP wrote but decided to pig pile him because reality bad. Dunking on libs good."
people read what you wrote. it sucked so they're tearing it apart. really simple shit.
Any organization hosting anti-trans viewpoints should be immediately dissolved. It's not a measure of purity, it's not up for debate. Anyone who isn't vocally pro-trans rights is not a comrade of mine. Trans rights or nothing. No facilitation of anti-trans views.
The only debate to be had is if transphobes should get re-eduaction or lined up against a brick wall.
did you read anything I wrote?
OF COURSE
I read exactly what you wrote and I disagreed with it. There will be no compromises with transphobes, even if we are "losing the war on austerity because of our purity." I've had this exact discussion with parties I've organized with. PSL for instance has frequent struggle sessions over transphobia and bigotry. The conclusion I reach is always the same, no compromise with transphobia.
If you're saying all this shit as some kind of mental gymnastics to justify voting for Democrats or whatever lib party exists for you, just do it. No one cares. Vote for whoever you want and then go back to organizing.
Furthermore you're a nerd who should stop posting.
Increasing the size of your text is incredibly obnoxious.
Nice edit
would you like my rage voice or my brain?
Somehow I got neither
I think this not only wrong but also ahistorical. Some left-wing groups from decades ago failed because they did not have enough support for fellow marginalized people. Organizations that bring in a wide coalition of oppressed people do better than those that maintain some level of racism and homophobia and sexism, etc etc, in order to try and appease what they perceive as a broadly reactionary working class. It's actually quite funny, because this argument fails in its own internal reasoning: we must throw entire groups under the bus - which are, by the very nature of being ostracized, more likely to be anti-capitalist - in order to attempt to appease reactionaries who probably aren't going to vote or support us anyway. If you follow this argument to its logical conclusion, following the most reactionary worker's demands, you will inevitably end up as pro-capitalist, racist, sexist, transphobic, etc etc, and at that point... what are you even doing? You're just Reactionary Party #243143. No, but we're actually gonna do communism when we take power, I swear! With our party whose candidates are mostly white reactionaries, because everybody else has been... purged from the... oh. Oh no.
I think that this view is a common one among people on the liberal-to-left pipeline, which you appear to be on. It's a byproduct of a liberal understanding of the world, and the media does its part in constantly reinforcing the idea that left-wing ideas are fundamentally unpopular among wide swathes of the population, who are ignorant, stupid, sexist racists, and so there must be compromise if you are to succeed.
I am literally observing an entire government that is against the very things that you
and I
want.
I would like a benevolent group of Anarcho Syndicalists to topple this government and kill capitalism in its tracks but that's just not the reality we're in. Fuck me for describing REALITY, huh?
The government, as in the state, is just the tool of the bourgeoisie as a class, as per Lenin's description of the concept. Of course they're going to support reactionary structures, that's what keeps them in power.
Trust me, I know that you want a magic bullet solution to this whole thing. "Oh, the problem with the Left is just that they haven't considered X as part of their strategy!" It doesn't work. The only thing that works is the hard work of engendering class consciousness among the population. This has been THE central problem for left-wing movements in the imperial core for literally a century. Groups have tried the whole "Alright, we'll be homophobic, we'll be racist, if we just get white male workers to vote us into power and support us, and then we can do communism and improve conditions for everybody" thing. It never works. The party inevitably becomes corrupted by those same reactionary impulses.
It's also not human nature, falling in doomer resignation about "Oh, humans are just cruel and selfish and tribal!" and giving up and playing video games all day also isn't the answer - if it was, then no socialist revolution could have possibly worked, and they demonstrably have. It's all part of how workers in the imperial core are conditioned by their relatively higher position above workers in the periphery and semi-periphery, as well as bourgeois propaganda that reinforces (but does not fundamentally create) fear that their meagre position in the imperial core will be taken away by minority groups, and they'll have to live like a Pakistani textile worker. It all destroys class consciousness.