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this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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So the Wehrmacht was a Drafted army .. US Army is a Volunteer force ..
meaning acording to your logic ... Wehrmachtsoldiers is even more innocent ! lets reinstate "7deadlyFetishes" , ? or maybe we accept that you come with certain obligations into this world, and if you go on murdering other people for your Masters in a Foreign land , then it naturally follows that your "Non -Existance" is prefarable to your "Existance" (and here i include myself) . They lose their "obligations " to you , ecause you decleared that you do not follow them yourself. Theres no "eternal innocence"
The Bolsheviks agitated among the soldiers between Feb and Oct, winning the support of the Russian lower ranks of the army in Petrograd and Kronstadt, and elsewhere, was essential to the Bolsheviks seizing power. Radicalized Navy was crucial in Russia, but also it was the German Navy that basically began the German Revolution against the war credits voted for by the SPD. Burkina Faso, while I'm not yet as familiar with the history, was another example of the enlisted military splitting from the top ranks and seizing power to implement socialism.
I don't know what it would take to turn the American military away from imperialism and toward socialism, and I'm not in a position to argue for it. But your example of Wehrmacht soldiers is completely unmoored from what the person you were responding to was trying to get at. I've talked to people who served who have made good arguments for agitating within the military, and everyone I know who has actually been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan (and there's def some selection bias here) is some flavor of anarchist/socialist.
"But Nazis tho" is not the level of criticism that will help us to build socialism. Relax.
I'm sorry but this is not a good comparison. The Russian Imperial Army and Navy were mostly lower class conscripts fighting in a traditional style with rifles and canons. The US military is all volunteer and uses tactics that rely on air superiority, advanced weaponry and intel gathering. Most people in the US military these days never get into an actual fire fight, or even ever see "the front". If you get recruited these days you're way more likely to get a job moving boxes in some base in Italy, playing Xbox in an air conditioned dorm in your free time, than hunkering down in a ditch with a rifle. I don't see what the left gains from recruiting some guy who piloted a drone while eating Doritos or drove a hummer around Kandahar for a year and maybe got shot at twice, both of whom are getting a full ride scholarship and a cheap home loan when they get out.
I literally said I wasn't arguing for agitating in the army, just that I've heard good arguments and I could imagine a confluence of historical conditions where it could become possible. My main point is not to jump down people's throats with debate-lordy indignation using examples that are irrelevant.