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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by autismdragon@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
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[-] Awoo@hexbear.net 71 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

When Bernie starts saying shit like this my opinion of him will change:

"You don't know how happy I am today. For the first time in the history of this country, we've managed to put a communist on the Supreme Court, a comrade of the quality of Flávio Dino"

Those south american socdems hit different.

Under no circumstances would any of our global north socdems say something overtly praising putting communists in positions of power. With perhaps the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.

[-] GhostSpider@hexbear.net 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

To be honest, I was shocked when he said that. Lula, and the Worker's Party as a whole, usually shy away from name-dropping Communism, let alone openly praising it.

Lula is usually worried with having support from the right-leaning Congress, and honestly, he needs that support to be allowed to do anything as president, and openly saying what he said is sure to get him a lot of criticism.

Still, it was a nice surprise to hear that.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 22 points 11 months ago

When bolsonaro stans attacked the airport, Lula denounced the “Stalinists” alongside the reactionaries but then paused and corrected himself, saying “Wait, no. Not the stalinists” then continued denouncing the reactionaries lol

[-] GucciMane@hexbear.net 7 points 11 months ago

Name-dropping communism astonishes you? Would Pol Pot astonish you?

[-] GalaxyBrain@hexbear.net 29 points 11 months ago

Yeah, cause I thought he was dead. He's a pretty astonishing guy in many other ways as well.

[-] GhostSpider@hexbear.net 26 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You clearly don't know Brazilian politics, but I already explained how unusual that is for a leftist politician like Lula who tries to appear moderate to appease the right. He straight up said he was very happy because for the first time ever, the supreme court will have a communist minister (appointed by him). Dino being a communist was a fact that only the opposition was using, to attack him and his appointment for the supreme court.

[-] Redcuban1959@hexbear.net 21 points 11 months ago

"They accuse us of being communists, as if we would be offended by that. We are not offended."

"We would be offended if they called us Nazis, neofascists, terrorists. But never a communist, a socialist. That doesn't offend us. It makes us proud many times."

Lula - 2023

[-] GhostSpider@hexbear.net 16 points 11 months ago

Not gonna lie, I don't remember that speech, but that was super based too!

[-] GucciMane@hexbear.net 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

My only point is that many people have name-dropped communism in history, and many of these people were counterrevolutionaries, reactionaries, utopians, liberals, social-democrats etc.

I don’t care that Lula thinks a communist is cool. I care whether Lula is communist, whether Lula belongs to a revolutionary communist party, whether the party is firmly linked with the masses and is actively fighting for the concerns of the masses — I could keep going but these things are not true. But yes it is true that Lula praised a communist. So did Pol Pot.

[-] Dolores@hexbear.net 26 points 11 months ago
[-] zifnab25@hexbear.net 25 points 11 months ago

Under no circumstances would any of our global north socdems say something overtly praising putting communists in positions of power.

I think they do pop off, once or twice, before they get piled on by liberals and social fascists. Sanders was openly complimentary of Chavez's Venezuela, Ortega's Nicaragua, and Castro's Cuba a decade ago. Rashida Tlaib has been a vocal advocate for Palestinian resistance in Gaza as recently as a few weeks ago. You can find comparable statements from AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush, particularly early on in their first campaigns and terms in office.

With perhaps the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.

Corbyn is a great case study in how the national far-right media treats anyone even tacitly supportive of left wing governments and organizations. The British Press has made it some kind of contest to see how many times they can demand everyone in the Labour Party condemn Hamas, as a result of his Palestinian advocacy. Every third question in any given interview boils down to "Do you condemn?"

So there's a certain amount of attrition that occurs, as even the tangentially left-wing Congresscritters and Parliamentarians avoid these issues entirely because of the way the press hounds them in the most annoying way possible. Because national right-wing media narratives whip up constituencies into a confused and angry lather, and because left-wing media in this country is heavily curtailed and censored, it is difficult to have a coherent conversation about foreign policy that doesn't end with a bunch of liberals accusing a sitting Congresswoman of being the unibomber.

this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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