1666
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
1666 points (98.6% liked)
Today I Learned
17872 readers
8 users here now
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I’d just like to make the note that the men’s liberation movement is the exact opposite of the men’s rights movement, despite the two sounding similar.
The men’s lib movement was founded specifically as being complementary to women’s lib and uses many of the same approaches and intellectual analyses. It explicitly rejects the MRA/red pill narratives while still trying to figure out masculine toxicity and honor cultures, as well as trying to elevate the idea that too few men seek or are able to receive the care they deserve. It’s very much against the patriarchy.
Unfortunately, like many communities on lemmy, it’s less active here than it was on Reddit, but it’s worth using the term as a search of nothing else.
The Reddit Mens Lib group are atrocious. They in no way accept that men are not fully to blame for whatever rubbish that radical feminists come up with.
The men’s lib group here on Lemmy is just as pathetic. Read any of their posts and they do not sound like men, but instead like a beaten down, passive group of people that cannot stand up for themselves.
Ah I see. So, what are men supposed to sound like?! That misandry, right there.
Clearly like your average Facebook comment section under some inflammatory post. That's how real men™ sound like.
Yes, exactly what this guy is saying is true. This is the kind of person whose presence is unwelcome in the men’s lib movement. This is the kind of crap up with which we shall not put, which is why I feel comfortable recommending it to people.
So, buddy, let me be clear. The harms we see and talk about and try to deal with are inflicted by toxic masculinity. It has nothing to do with “radical feminism” and I honestly have no idea what that means to you. I’ve heard the term used for everyone ranging from women who point out and fight against rape culture to women with purple hair. But, yeah, if you’re the kind of man who complains about radical feminism, especially when the discussion is centering around issues affecting men including everything from education to economics to the culture of violence and racism… well, your input is probably going to be disregarded.
Not OP, but you're omitting what people actually mean by radical feminists. And it's not purple hair, you're being ridiculous. People usually mean women who say all men all rapists, all men should die and so on.
And you need to join anti-feminist groups and claim Men who advocate for men don't "sound like men" to fight against these people? Give me an estimate how many feminists do you believe think that all men are rapists or that all men should die. Just a guess.
Oh, I don't, I haven't joined any such group, I pretty much consider myself feminist and even donated quite a lot of money to feminist causes before I had to focus my attention on saving some money for personal reasons (though I plan on returning to donating when I have some significant spare money again).
I was just explaining what people really mean by radical feminist and that the claim that it's about hair color is ridiculous (though I'm sure you'll find such people, but to paraphrase your question - how many percent do you believe mean just hair color by "radical feminist"?).
To answer your question, my guess would be in the 5-10% range.
You believe 5-10 % of people who call themselves feminists want to kill all men or believe all men are rapists? That is absolutely sad. Do you mind to explain to me what makes you arrive at such a conclusion?
Well, not only those, but something in the general direction of "all men are bad and should be punished".
Statistics, mainly, in any large enough group there are 10-20% idiots/extremists/trolls. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depends really on the group/topic. Sadly they're usually also the loudest group further feeding the illusion that they're the majority.
So you’re saying people critical to the Men’s Lib movement aren’t welcome in the Men’s Lib movement?
That tells me everything I need to know about it’s “intellectual methods”.
I think you mean “critical of” and not “critical to.”
And while there is welcomed and active debate in the community on our approaches and domains of concern, people who are actively hostile and unwilling to engage in a well-intended discussion are not welcome, in the same way that homophobes aren’t welcome in the LGBT community and far-right types aren’t welcome in socialist communities. We don’t want racists in spaces for Black persons, and we don’t want to engage with transphobes in trans spaces.
In men’s lib, we study the semantics and semiotics of masculinity both in specific cultures and how the ideas developed over time. We study sex, sexuality, and gender. Most importantly, we try to understand these things as they impact the communities we live in. While most people would be happy to discuss any of those issues, someone coming in from a “feminism bad” perspective is not going to be interested in discussion. They have a lot of learning to do before they’re ready, and they’re usually more interested in arguing than learning.