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The Critic [Toonhole Chris]
(startrek.website)
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this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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Good for him, brushing your teeth and honest introspection isn’t easy when you hate yourself. He’s right about that art though, derivative trash.
If you don't like that art, let me introduce you to post modernism: 💩😘👍🚙⚫
Oooo so anti authoritarian with a dash esoteric symbolism.
That's way better than what I have witnessed, there seems to be a meaning 🥲 !
Seen for real:
A car painted black.
A rack of clothing.
Magazines.
Seen on the internet:
Shit in a box
Ejaculate on magazines
...
The banana taped to a wall, sold for a lot is probably a try to laundry money or similar though.
I was being a little tongue in cheek because you were having a laugh about what you think of that art movement.
Postmodern art is better enjoyed with context. A urinal signed and put on a pedestal doesn’t mean or look like much of anything, but it’s more impactful when you understand the intention behind it –Duchamp and his fountain are worth reading about even though he pre dates the movement so it’s a little beside the point but he’s kinda the grandfather of the movement, so whatever he’s cool.
Classifying something as postmodern art isn’t about a shared aesthetic like renaissance, cubism, or pop art. It’s focus is typically less about the craft and more about the message. A lot of the time it’s mocking the status quo or the art world in general, other times it’s making a challenging statement in a challenging way.
“Comedian” or the banana taped to canvas seems like an artist phoning it in because their name has the value not the art anymore. Maybe it is just being silly and that’s all there was to it from conception to execution. On the other hand they worked on that for months, obessing over the type of tape and placement, chose the banana because it is iconic while also high risk to be wiped out from climate change and unveiled it in a studio in Miami.
If it’s only the former and this is a meaningless money laundering scheme like you suggested (most people laundering money don’t want global attention for only $150k). Even if that’s the case, we’re still talking about it 5 years later. So the purpose if art is fundamentally creating something greater than the sum of it’s parts then they fucking nailed it.
I agree, the Emperor looks stunning in his new outfit once you know the tailor's backstory.
You see, he was orphaned at a young age, and to make ends meet he took up sewing.
Unfortunately, his store burned to the ground and after collecting the insurance payment he was forced into a life of conning rich idiots out of money.
That’s that sweet sweet anti authoritarianism I’m talking’ about!
Ok but the guy who gave them "Take the money and run" got sued.
Did they pay out? How much money did he drop while running?
It was an artist who took 67,000 euro or something to provide a set of paintings for an exhibition, gave them blank canvases and called it that.
Thats interesting, do you have a link?
Wikipedia entry here
The best part of this former art is how it makes me smile without even seeing it. I wonder how the value would’ve adjusted if they hadn’t lost or museum hadn’t sued to begin with. Not surprised the court ruled for the museum, though. The art world’s weird; a Banksy gets shredding and becomes more valuable because of it.
I know, I took it to be a perfect representation of this part of the artworld.
I mean it captures the antiestablishment spirit that’s in a lot of it, but this artist essentially commited fraud, so not the fairest light to shine on the rest of them.
I'd say he's the only one to do it honestly.
How so?
I find all these kinds of modern art things incredibly pretentious and see absolutely no value in them so him being cheeky and taking the piss is exactly what they deserve.
Yeeees, quite truly sooo. Tis valueless, unsophisticated, drivel. Feigning airs of such pretension. Huhuhuhaaaa. Much like that hippy hop and the rock N roll bally hoo.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do but in case you're curious, I also don't see the immense monetary value in "traditional" art.
I took your last comment as a dismissal of an entire art movement for being pretentious, ironically sounds pretty pretentious, so I made a goof of it.
Knowing you’re railing against art dealers and collectors in general, I get your point and share the sentiment to an extent. Personally, I think placing high value on arts preserves them longer than they could be otherwise. The global museum tours make them more accessible and raise funds for art programs while doing so. Sure there’s a lot of bad actors in any field but I don’t think the art trade is necessarily a net negative for society.
In my book, if you have to explain it, it's not art, but eveyone can obviously have their opinion. And yeah I know about the toilet :-p
However you want to enjoy art is cool, but narrowing the definition seems like an arbitrary reason to limit what you can be open to enjoy. Context≠explaining it, though.
Didn’t mean to art-splain at you by the way, no offense intended.
Yeah no offence taken!
And well if someone says aah say wine is art or running is art, I'd still enjoy it ;-)
What's art? Vast debate.
Good question with a pretty ambiguous answer for anyone that’d try to answer.
For me it’s a combination of skill, intention, and impact. Like a shaky handed sharpie tag on a bus stop isn’t much of anything, but when it says, “kill your local heroin dealer” that’s impactful. The shaky lines start to show the styling they had intended but can’t capture anymore. I’d call that art even though it was painted over a week later.
Intetesting.
For me skill has nothing to do with it (within reason I guess), it may probably just produce better or worse art.
Impact, that's the same thing, I shouldn't have to care about how others perceive my art, should I?
So I guess for me the intentent is the thing, but it must be that, real intent. If my intent is to express my horrors over heroin dealers, I cant just paint a box in blue and then "explain" myself out of it.
Now if an ex heroin addict paints blue boxes because he lived in blue boxes for years, then that's probably a real expression though and thus art. And I bet he wouldn't feel the need to explain even if he can.
I'm not sure I'm very clear here, but intent it is I think, so hard to prove.
I find introspection the easiest part of hating myself, there's so much to attack! Lol
I get you’re joking, but just in case there’s any earnestness there and you’ve been hurting your own feelings lately. I’d like you to know that acknowledging self loathing is honest introspection and a good first step, the self loathing itself is more like self harm and generally dishonest. If there is any honesty in it, try and practice more self compassion.
Shit’s tough out here, you matter and people care about you. Keep going friend :)
I appreciate the concern! I joke about my issues, so it's like 50/50 a joke and it's real lol
I have a very hard time with self compassion because I feel like it's undeserved or a lie. If I hate myself for reasons x,y,z I feel dishonest expressing self compassion, I feel that the hatred is well deserved.
I'm horrible with double standards though: you're a human and humans make mistakes and can change, but for me I would attack myself relentlessly lol
Of course you’re welcome. I’ve gone through similar thought patterns and it sucks to be stuck in a head space like that. Glad you’re half joking, rooting for you to lock down that second half.
Don’t be stranger if you need one. Good luck.
Let me counter that with:
People are assholes, we all die eventually, maybe admitting we suck is more appropriate than pretending we are good for the sake of appeasing our own insane minds before we die. Maybe it helps change for the better or not, who knows.
Shit's tough, the grand scheme of your existence is practically miniscule with the likely amount of impact you have and people mostly care about how other people care about them. Go out there and play a good game, champ!
It sounds like you’re suggesting self compassion is a lack of self-accountability, but they aren’t the same. So your premise is flawed.
People care because it comes naturally to us, people that can’t or don’t have personality disorders and that’s a different burden to live with. Even they don’t deserve to be trapped in depression and self hatred and nobody ever got better by hurting themselves.
Apathy sucks. It’s lazy, boring, not as cool as your nihilistic antiheroes have led you to believe, and is just a bummer to be around.
I don’t want to keep enaging with your negatively, but sincerely hope you’re doing okay and finding healthy happiness in your life.
Nah I'm just countering with you have no concept of what their person is going through and casual well wishes are meaningless to a person drowning. The situation one finds themselves in is often a myriad of outcomes not entirely based on self and can still leave a person feeling defeated.
It's probably true that I don't know what it's like to be the average person but also the idea of average is flawed and comes from a self centered perspective of normal.
So I'm sharing mine. A different perspective for the drowning person not of self love but of a need to swim as hard as they can and give the audience the show they can muster if they want to. But it's mostly a game of understanding how far you can get and hoping there might be more. I won't offer anything but practical advice.
I find the people who are joining hands and singing about how we are all friends to be boring to be around too. And not helpful in times of need. Apathy is not a great answer but just being sure that you love yourself and aware of how you are in a situation doesn't equate to much at the end of the show.
Existence is fleeting and not guaranteed. People will aim to extend theirs and as an afterthought, others. So you decide how much you want out of it. Ignore the crowd and the boos and get on with dying.
Crab Bucket Effect
So you were... Pulling him out of the bucket by calling him friend when I said fuck that life is about making of what you got and good luck? Or am I pulling you down by admitting it's a myriad of situational aspects that define a person as much as their own personal values? Which part allows you to see me as a cruel force bringing others down? Cause that was pretty esoteric as far as responses go.
Are you just telling me that you caught a lot of crabs in a bucket and you just want to show off the cool thing you found? Or are you mad at me cause I interrupted your rather blase show of altruism for self feel good points to point out that words kinda mean nothing? And it hurt your ideas that these words are deeply meaningful and impactful. Saying you are a friend and being a friend are different things. People talk about the things said that pulled them out but not as much about the importance of who said it. Which is honestly more important and why finding a therapist whom's opinion you take seriously is more important than the smartest one. (Unless that's how you decide trust)
I get that it feels good and feels like helping but know that the sappyness doesn't stick as well digitally and "fuck it" is sometimes just as an assuring thought as "chin up" for a person. People like feeling seen, and sharing just to hear someone hears it. And Internet platitudes are often junk food for the soul. No substance, just makes you feel good for a little then it is back to yearning. Happiness isn't a constant feeling. I'm sure they will feel it but it doesn't mean the rest doesn't hurt waiting for the next meal.