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this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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GREAT! Ditching PHEV's was a stupid idea, we don't have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV's moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV's work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you're on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.
Have y'all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it's FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.
Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can't charge at home.
They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.
Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.
I live in a relatively small town in Germany (about 8k residents) and we have mutiple public charging stations here. Insane how bad the infrastructure is over in Australia.
This is the kind of thing the makes me call BS when someone tries to use this excuse for the US. 7 charging stations for Melbourne? Wow.
I’m sure it depends on where you are, but my one road trip was to a small town in New Hampshire, not near any major city. The Tesla Supercharger station must have had at least a dozen spots and there were two other large charging stations. I’m reasonably sure most of the US population already has more chargers than they believe, and the rural areas that don’t are already a niche
I read some studies that PHEV owners don't plug in. So there should not be any tax credits for the purchase.
If we want to do anything to stimulate, there should be something based on electric driving.
PHEV is not the same as a common hybrid. It's literally in the name.
That would not surprise me at all.
In the UK, they have a huge tax incentive as company cars. People are definitely getting them for the tax benefig, and not giving a shit about the electrics.
Though honestly, if it means almost all company cars are at least regenerative braking, and the tech is there is someone does want to use it, it's not the worst thing.
I might end up with a PHEV in a few years, as most of my driving is very short distance, and I can't justify the cost of a 200mi+ BEV for the 1 trip a month that needs it. And putting second hand PHEVs on the market helps that.
Why would they pay more for a PHEV if they aren't going to use it? Even with credits the cost is still higher.
I dunno.. company car, bragging rights, it's the new fad..
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PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.
With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.
If you're doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.
An EV would work if the infrastructure was there. Modern EV batteries can charge full in like 15 minutes but it's not even gonna take that long cause you'll obviously not be plugging it in at 0%. The charger needs to support that amount of power throughput tho tbf.
Right, but it's not yet. So a PHEV is a better option for most people (for now).
True but the issue is that your government isn't doing anything about it. They could e.g. require every gas station to have an electric charger (Will be the case soon in Germany)
Okay. And until the government does something about it, a PHEV is an excellent choice.
I have over 110k miles on my EV in 5 years, and that’s including COVID lockdown and then moving to the city where I drive even less. The charging infrastructure is there for Tesla. I was able to drive across the country (Washington to Mississippi/Alabama) three times so far, down in rural Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, in the snow, through the Rocky mountains, through the cascades for hikes, etc.
It’s a no brainer. I’m never going back to anything with a combustion engine. If Tesla can do charging infrastructure that makes 99.9% of the US easily accessible, so can Ford or any other big EV manufacturer.
Bullshit. Being able to eventually get somewhere doesn't mean the infrastructure is "there" unless your standard for "there" is low. Charging every 100-150 miles means a long trip will take literally hours longer. That is just unacceptable for most people. I've done the trip across Pennsylvania several times in a Tesla, and Pennsylvania actually has decent charger coverage. But my trip still took a solid HOUR longer than usual. And if I have to wait in line at a full Tesla charger, it'll add even more than an hour.
The fact that you, personally, are okay with driving slower doesn't mean everyone else is. And that argument doesn't even touch the fact that you're only saying the infrastructure is there for Teslas. What about all the other brands? Everyone in America has to buy a Tesla?
Woah. Why all the aggression?
I charge every 2-3 hours for 15-25 mins. So a 6.5 hour trip will take about 7.5-8 hours. For my latest cross country trip, it took 48 hours with charging from Seattle to Jackson Mississippi. Google says it’s a 38 hour drive. So it added about 25% but he drive was so much more enjoyable. We got food at all of our stops so it didn’t add that much time when you factor in stopping for food, gas, water, dog, etc. Sure it adds a little time, but it helps me stay awake.
Charging infrastructure is only going to get better and faster. Imagine a 500mile battery that charges to 80 in 15 mins. You’ll only stop every 4-5 hours for 15 mins. About the same as a gas car now.
Also, that’s why I said I can’t wait to have charging infrastructure with other automakers.
I didn’t say everyone should get an EV either. I’d much rather have better mass public transit. I’m just saying the infrastructure is there for EV charging.
IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.
Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.
At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.
A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.
I'd argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren't all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.
I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don't seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.
Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel's Ampera-E uses, since it's basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.
The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don't see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.
It's still more viable in regions where people don't have personal garages, and their apartment parking lot doesn't support retrofitting charging stands.