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Why do they say "there's no true Left in the US"?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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u seriously think i was labeling anyone who disagreed with me a nazi?? the ones that were labeling me was exactly those left wing nutjobs.
if you want to compare what your meaning of nazi is against mine,please do define what nazi means to you in a concise manner and we can compare notes,otherwise i agree,this exchange isn't going anywhere.
I would define a Nazi as someone who follows or supports the socio-political ideology Nazism - to quote Wikipedia:
I would also include neo-Nazis who, again quoting Wiki:
I will grant you that some people use the word in a much weaker way (see "grammar nazi"), which I find frustrating but I have to acknowledge is a modern usage... but not the one I have been using in this conversation.
here's mine:
nazi or nazism (a form of fascism ) is an anti-intellectual and politically semi-illiterate ideology lacking cohesion, a product of mass culture which allowed its followers emotional attachment and offered a simplified and easily-digestible world-view based on a political mythology for the masses.
From wiki:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
in short: racism,bigotry,suppression and the belief that one's ideology is better for the masses.
so you tell me,when the extreme left wingers are found not guilty of doing the same as their right wing counter parts?? or you are saying people who advocate leftist ideals, who supresses opposing views aren't exactly leftist but fascists promoting equality,acceptance,diversity or tolerance??
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Are you suggesting that modern leftists are fascists?
The origin of this conversation was the your idea that left- and right-wing extremism is the same. My position is they are different. I'm not saying that people on the far left don't do some of the things that the Nazis did. It would be impossible, really, I mean they also built roads but I'm not about to call civil engineers Nazis. Looking at modern (i.e. neo-) Nazis, my point is that they are not comparable to left-wing extremists around today. Their views are not similar, their goals are not similar, their methods are not similar. Can you find a racist leftist? Of course. Can you find a non-racist Nazi? No.
I'll stop using Nazis or neo-Nazis as examples, though, because it's clearly not helpful. Consider white supremacists, instead, if that helps.
Going back to the other commenter who shared the blog post - we see that far right extremism is responsible for >90% of extremist murders in the US in recent years. Clearly far left extremism cannot compete! The trans activists you mentioned earlier, are they similar? Are they going out and killing people? I glossed over it before but your point was that they "label" anyone who "disagrees with them" as a transphobe... Even if you disagree with that label, it hardly seems comparable to killing people. ___
the idea here is left wingers are also completely capable of behaving like right wingers. both end of the extreme aren't that much different in a sense that they are basically extremes that drives people to behaving badly, uncivil,intolerant and discrimitory.
while one side is more violent than the other,it does not absolve them of the violence they commit no matter the justification and violence as we all know, comes in different forms.
if nazi is a word specifically reserved for a group of individuals then extremists would have been a better word to use,given the 2 extremes aren't necessary better than the other but is equally bad if left unchecked.
The extremes are different, the behaviours are different... wildly so! One extreme involves advocating for the extermination of entire peoples, while the best example of the other extreme you can come up with so far is accusing people of transphobia! How can you think these are the same? And they "drive" people to obviously very different ends, too! The far right version of "behaving badly" is fucking murdering people, while the far left version is apparently being mean to you on the internet.
Please, provide an example of leftists actually doing something you think is as bad as killing people, or advocating genocide. Otherwise it seems like you are the apologist - and you aren't just an apologist of some nebulous group who you won't define, as you accused me of, you are actually being an apologist for far right child murderers. Because by comparing the far right's crimes to something as people on the internet policing language you are minimising those crimes, and that is a disservice to the victims of those crimes.
aaron danielson ring any bells?? how about antifa??
far left extremists are completely capable of terrorist and other deadly behaviours the question is when and where.
like i have written ,they are extremes,none is better than the other. you aren't changing my mind on. the right wing nuts jobs and certainly not the left wing extremists.
i concur,this conversation isn't really going anywhere other than you trying to change my mind on the left.
the right wing nutjobs are crazy for sure but the left wing nutjons are getting crazier.
Antifa might be violent, but they are violent in their opposition to violent ideologies, not to random members of the public. Aaron Danielson, I'll take a guess, is the single example of someone actually being killed by a far left terrorist in the US in a 25 year period, mentioned by the earlier commenter.
Sure, I mean Pol Pot was a communist, he killed loads of people in Cambodia in the 1970s. But today? There is objective evidence that the far right is worse!
I'm trying to convince you, and anyone reading this, that the left is not the same as the right. If you can't see that, well that's on you. You have been deluded by the right. You think you're in the middle, but you aren't. You are sitting with and minimising the abundant actual crimes of racists and bigots by trying to equate them with trivial internet bullshit and a single solitary actual murder.
Hahahah, the left is getting more reasonable with time, not less! I mean, I refer again to Pol Pot, do you see anyone like that on the left today? Nowadays the right are just getting more sensitive, and people like you are whining because you aren't allowed to be transphobic without people being mean to you and hurting your feelings. Get a grip.
"Extremism" doesn't inherently mean "violent." Equating those with far-left views with "bad and violent" views is unsubstantiated.
Every single claim you've made, that extremism is bad because it drives people to "behave badly" is unsubstantiated. You're arguing off of vibes alone.
The two extremes are not "equally bad." On the far-right, you have genocide and ethno-states under brutal fascist rule, on the far left you have a stateless, classless, moneyless society.