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this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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vegan
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Welcome to /c/vegan and congratulations on your first steps toward overcoming liberalism and ascending to true leftist moral superiority.
Rules
No plant-based diet bullshit or promotion of plant-based capitalism.Veganism isn't about you, it's about historical materialist anti-speciesism, anti-racist animalization, and animal liberation. Ethical vegans only.No omni apologists or carnists.Babystepping is for libs, and we're not here to pat you on the back. Good faith questions and debate about how to fight for animal liberation are allowed.No advocating violence to any species for any reason.If you think this is negotiable GTFO. This includes but is not limited to animal testing, slaughter, and mass euthanasia. Anything that promotes speciesism or the commodification of animals will be removed.Use Content Warnings and NSFW tags for triggering content.Especially if a comrade requests it.Questions about diet belong inc/food. It's also a great place to share recipes.In all sections of the site, you must follow theHexbear.net Code of Conduct.
Resources
Animal liberation and direct action
- Animal Liberation Press (ALF)
- Wiki on Ethical Veganism
- Wiki on the Animal Liberation Front
- Wiki on Total Liberation
- Different approaches to AL direct action
- Earth First! manual and tactics
- Support prisoners of conscience: Vegan Prisoners Support Group (UK)
- If someone tells you to put some paint on your hands, tag some buildings and then go turn yourself into the police - your "rebellion" is a fucking op
Read theory, libs
- 18 Theses on Marxism and Animal Liberation
- Racism as Zoological Witchcraft: A Guide to Getting Out
- Animal Liberation
- The Death of Nature
- The Case for Animal Rights
- Anarchism and Animal Liberation
- Total Liberation
- The Unbearable Whiteness of Milk
- Speciesism as a Precondition to Justice
- Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation
- Citations Needed on media portrayals of animal rights activists
- The Jungle
Vegan 101 & FAQs
- Black Vegans Rock resources page
- Animal Rights: The Abolitionist Approach FAQs
- 30 Non-Vegan Excuses & How to Respond to Them
- Guide to justifications for harming and exploiting animals
- Your Vegan Fallacy Is
- The Radical Left’s Top 10 Objections to Veganism (And Why They Suck)
- Animal Liberation Front FAQs
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I don't have kids (yet?) but I was raised vegetarian (Indian upper caste family). A vegan diet can be easily adapted for a child's needs. I think it's good that the (uncalled-for) remark by your colleague made you think about this, it means that you care about this issue more deeply than most people do, who just feed kids what they are cooking for themselves. I think the point that another commenter made about getting kids exposed, in a safe way, to allergens is very important. I'd even go far as letting them eat meat very very occasionally - who knows, there may be a time in the future where your need to survive will be against your need to be vegan.
I actually started eating meat after I moved out of India, and I'm hoping to shift to a vegan diet when things are more stable in my life. But personally, even if I don't ever eat any other kind of meat, I want to be able to eat beef, in some symbolic and meaningless way at least. Hindu vegetarianism is a toxic thing, it is absolutely not about not harming animals but about upper castes adopting a "pure" diet, and even then they make exceptions because that is how this bullshit works. I loathe the way Indian vegetarianism is mentioned in a positive way without these aspects being known. The same vegetarians will never give up milk, even though they know about the hell a cow has to go through. In India, you are judged by your dietary habits, you may not be able to rent if you eat meat. I've seen my friends in school getting bullied because they got some meat for lunch. Sorry for this off topic rant, but had to vent.
Well it's like other people in this thread are saying. Veganism is a choice, and it's a choice I personally view as liberation. It's a freedom to not rely upon animal death and it's a freedom we can share with animals. Veganism isn't a religion or anything. If I'm in a situation where animal products are a necessity, then I'm still vegan because at my core I believe in animal liberation. Like I don't criticize indigenous people who hunt or make leather, I don't criticize poor people who do things like fishing. I'm vegan and I know this is a choice I'm making within the context of what's available to me. Like you said, your life isn't stable at the moment.
Thank you for sharing your perspective though. It is true I want to consider the reality of raising a vegan family. I don't consider it immoral to put a kid on a vegan diet at all though, although I am realizing most of my peers would call this abusive. I can't see it that way.
I'm like you, I was raised in a household centered around meat and hunting. My dad would shoot raccoons, deer, et and eat them. I think part of my veganism is a response to that. It always seemed unnecessary, like my dad was doing things out of his own pride rather than need
I’m with you through so much of this but you’re really gonna be a “I’m gonna eat TWO steaks cause you don’t eat any!” person to own the Hindus? Why not just assert total moral superiority over them going vegan, knowing milk is murder and abuse?
It's not about owning Hindus though. Let me give you some context. In Karnataka, an important South Indian state that the BJP (the far-right Hindutva party) won some time ago, there was a quite popular free lunch program, provided by the previous government. Their idea was to make poor kids feel like there is some point in going to school, and at the same time fix nutritional deficiencies. One of the items in the lunch would be a boiled egg, which you could refuse if you wished. Eggs being a cheap and great source of protein, made it an easy fix for the carbs heavy Indian diet. BJP comes in, and removes this option, largely due to pressure from their upper caste electorate, who mostly wouldn't even make use of the free lunch, but can't cope with children eating eggs, which are considered "non-veg" in India. In some sense, BJP could be seen as lessening the suffering of chickens, but I would never accept this kind of reasoning.
Beef is effectively banned from being sold and even eaten in like >80% of India. It's not just enough that Hindu upper castes, who have a religious obligation to not eat beef (even this is debatable), but they will not let Muslims and Christians, who have no such obligation, eat beef. People get routinely lynched to death because they are suspected of "trafficking" beef. If you get the cops to bother to look into this, they send the meat to a lab to know if it is indeed beef. This is the level of insanity that Indians have to deal with. And some BJP supporters have now started talking about how this is good for the planet and cuts down on animal suffering, as if keeping cows in factory farms and getting them raped repeatedly so they can be milked efficiently is somehow better.
If animal suffering is the only thing you are considering, then it shouldn't matter if you are being forced into not eating meat or not. Personally, I want to eliminate meat from my diet but I will stand for a person's right to eat meat. I realize this is an odd stand, and it is possibly even inconsistent, but I hope I have explained where it is coming from.
Well, you’re definitely onto something. The Hindus are using this as a tool to enforce hierarchies, and that’s bad. Actually vegetarianism was famously employed by the Nazis too basically to assert purity and wash their hands of other moral issues. I’m unable to get on board with a right to eat meat, considering that animal didn’t and can’t consent to be eaten and we don’t need to eat animals, but I respect your outlook and understand where you’re coming from.