538

Fuck's sake.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 115 points 2 years ago

Prayer In Tongues On Floor Before Abortion Ruling.

...

The science on speaking in tongues:

• People don’t tend to use sounds that aren’t in their native language. (citation) So if you’re an English speaker, you’re not going to bust out some Norwegian vowels. This rather lets the air out of the theory that individuals engaged in glossolalia are actually speaking another language. It is more like playing alphabet soup with the sounds you already know. (Although not always all the sounds you know. My instinct is that glossolalia is made up predominately of the sounds that are the most common in the person’s language.)

• It lacks the structure of language. (citation) So one of the core ideas of linguistics, which has been supported again and again by hundreds of years of inquiry, is that there are systems and patterns underlying language use: sentences are usually constructed of some sort of verb-like thing and some sort of noun-like thing or things, and it’s usually something on the verb that tells you when and it’s usually something on the noun that tells you things like who possessed what. But these patterns don’t appear in glossolalia. Plus, of course, there’s not really any meaningful content being transmitted. (In fact, the “language” being unintelligible to others present is one of the markers that’s often used to identify glossolalia.) It may sort of smell like a duck, but it doesn’t have any feathers, won’t quack and when we tried to put it in water it just sort of dissolved, so we’ve come to conclusion that it is no, in fact, a duck.

• It’s associated with a dissociative psychological state. (citation) Basically, this means that speakers are aware of what they’re doing, but don’t really feel like they’re the ones doing it. In glossolalia, the state seems to come and then pass on, leaving speakers relatively psychologically unaffected. Disassociation can be problematic, though; if it’s particularly extreme and long-term it can be characterized as multiple personality disorder.

• It’s a learned behaviour. (citation) Basically, you only see glossolalia in cultures where it’s culturally expected and only in situations where it’s culturally appropriate. In fact, during her fieldwork, Dr. Goodman (see the citation) actually observed new initiates into a religious group being explicitly instructed in how to enter a dissociative state and engage in glossolalia.

https://makingnoiseandhearingthings.com/2013/11/07/the-science-of-speaking-in-tongues/

...

Professor of Linguistics William J Samarin concluded:

• While speaking in tongues does appear at first to resemble human language, that was only on the surface.[3]:73, 104, 120-1, 121-127

• The actual stream of speech was not organized and there was no existing relationship between units of speech and concepts.[3]:73, 120, 127, 128

• The speakers might believe it to be a real language, but it was totally meaningless.[3]:121, 127

Anthropologist Felicitas Goodman compared it with rituals from Japan and Indonesia as well as Africa and Borneo and concluded that there was no distinction. It truly is universal and quite easily crosses religious divides.[8]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Speaking_in_tongues

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 28 points 2 years ago

Very good summary. I've never seen anyone do it outside of YouTube but someone added me to a snake handling church Facebook group for the laughs and they have some videos of them doing it.

[-] DdCno1@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago

Those insane snake handling churches that routinely have people bitten?

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

Yeah the group is a riot. Lots of them have died of snakebite and yet they persist.

There's a great book about it called Salvation on Sand Mountain that I highly recommend.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

I'd say that's to their credit.

Don't get me wrong, they're completely nuts, but at least they're consistent. Anyone who gets bitten doesn't have enough faith. Period.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

I have this great photo of some chubby kid with a tie that says JESUS holding a box of snakes someplace.

[-] aniki@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

Wait so if I never bother to test myself because I'm not a pond-drinking moron, does that mean I have enough faith?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I'm not saying it isn't silly, but it comes from a specific passage in Mark 16-

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

So Big J, who's also Big G, says that if you believe, you'll be able to walk around with snakes and drink poison and survive.

They're not so big on the poison drinking, admittedly.

[-] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

I grew up in a branch of the Pentecostal Church (not the snake handlers). Even as a kid I thought it was fucking wild that people did that.

My favorite times were when people were "overcome by the spirit" or whatever and they'd stand up to get attention and speak in tongues (same people every fucking week) and this crazy old woman would stand up and "interpret" what those folks were saying. Listen, Birdie, I'm pretty sure that if there is a god he doesn't speak solely in King James English.

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

I tried to speak in tongues when I was young. Somebody told me to just babble, so I did. Then I stopped because I knew I was just faking it. Some lady gushed, "what a beautiful prayer language!"

And then I knew they couldn't tell the difference. Thats how I began questioning what I was taught. Wish it still didn't take me so long after that.

[-] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

You got lucky then. I think most of the ones doing it either want to sound important or don't want to feel left out so they're faking, but a bunch of folks get swept up in something like mass hysteria and really think they did it. You see that a bunch in things like teen conferences where there's just a load of kids swept up in a feeling.

Those folks are the true believers. They may fake it later but they really feel like they did something that first time and they would do anything trying to get that feeling back.

[-] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

Lucky I got out, yes. But it took another 12 years and no shortage of heartbreak. Childhood indoctrination doesn't leave easily.

[-] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Nope, it doesn't, but I want you to know that we're glad to have you.

[-] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

Well these are people who think Jesus was white, so their perceptions aren't exactly accurate lol.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

The "interpretations," based on what my wife (who grew up in an Assembly of God church) has told me always seem to be things you would normally hear in church anyway- Jesus loves you, have faith in God, pray hard and good things will happen, etc.

[-] TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Mostly, yeah. That whole "Good things will happen" was a LOT of it where I grew up. It was vague prophecies akin to what a fortune teller would tell you as long as you kept the faith or whatever.

Sometimes there was some hellfire and brimstone mixed into the "prophecy", but I think that's just because I was in an area where that was popular.

[-] _Cid_@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

It's interesting people actually analysed this. Though the conclusion is far from shocking.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 2 years ago

Why are you such an anti-religious bigot? /s

this post was submitted on 10 Apr 2024
538 points (97.9% liked)

News

36384 readers
1062 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious biased sources will be removed at the mods’ discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted separately but not to the post body. Sources may be checked for reliability using Wikipedia, MBFC, AdFontes, GroundNews, etc.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source. Clickbait titles may be removed.


Posts which titles don’t match the source may be removed. If the site changed their headline, we may ask you to update the post title. Clickbait titles use hyperbolic language and do not accurately describe the article content. When necessary, post titles may be edited, clearly marked with [brackets], but may never be used to editorialize or comment on the content.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials, videos, blogs, press releases, or celebrity gossip will be allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis. Mods may use discretion to pre-approve videos or press releases from highly credible sources that provide unique, newsworthy content not available or possible in another format.


7. No duplicate posts.


If an article has already been posted, it will be removed. Different articles reporting on the same subject are permitted. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners or news aggregators.


All posts must link to original article sources. You may include archival links in the post description. News aggregators such as Yahoo, Google, Hacker News, etc. should be avoided in favor of the original source link. Newswire services such as AP, Reuters, or AFP, are frequently republished and may be shared from other credible sources.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS