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this post was submitted on 19 May 2024
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"Libertarian" became popular in the US when it started being incorporated into various science fiction novels. Probably the most famous is "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress." I love the book as science fiction, but the society the author creates depends on so many caveats that even the author has the old style 'free' system fall apart as soon as an actual government [as opposed to prison regulations] is formed.
They got their que from right-wing economic grifters like Rothbard and Hayek - people whose beliefs wouldn't be out of place in Nazi Germany. That's why olden days US sci-fi writing was a festering hole of fascism - nothing else could have produced people like Heinlein.
Heinlein was a huge friend to Philip K. Dick, and any number of Jewish science fiction writers. He was one of the first writers to have an African woman as a hero, one of the first to have a transman character. Stop using the word 'fascist' for anyone on the Right. It dilutes the term.
And?
And?
Again... and?
All right-wingers walk the same path. If you write fascist drivel, you are a fascist. Heinlein was a fascist. Stop making excuses for him.
And then you wonder why the Left loses pretty much every election.
What left, liberal?
Exactly my point.
Call me when you actually win an election.
No, really, liberal - where the fuck do you see anything that can be called left with a straight face contesting anything in the formal political establishment?
Or is it just that you got your cartoonish and Reagen-esque idea of what left and right even means from hysterical liberals and fascists on CNN and Fox news?
If you can't win an argument without using foul language, you probably don't have many good ideas.
Bye bye.
Feel free to run away any time you feel like it, liberal.
Dawg, you just fabricated your idea of what the other dude thinks in that second paragraph. Touch grass, call someone, go outside.
We are not close enough for endearments.
No, I didn't. If you think there's anything "leftist" about the formal political establishment it indicates a very specific form of brain-rot that is childishly easy to trace to the mass misrepresentation of political concepts one can easily find simply by turning on a television. Both liberals and their fascist fellow-travellers suffer from this brain-rot... and it's symptoms are perfectly predictable.
Not all that difficult to understand, no?
Would you deny that Canada's NDP, the CPUSA, or US Greens are leftist?
Yes.
You're saying that the wp:Communist Party USA is not leftist?
What are you?
a Maoist?
a Hoxhaist?
a Gonzaloist?
How many socialistic writers wrote sci-fi that included Africans and the TG?
Was it back when Stalin outlawed homosexuality and allying with Hitler?
Plenty.
Could you name me one?
How far back do you want to go?
let's say before 1950.
Then click the link.
Sorry about that: I didn't realize there was a link; and thanks for making it.
Neither the words "socialist" nor "leftist" appears in that article.
They don't have to because...
...sounds perfectly radical to me.
We have a biological kinship with all mammals.
You have to be more specific.
This is not to denigrate her work, and she might have had at least some sympathies with socialists and leftists, but it's probably neither socialist nor leftist in the same way that Rand was ideological, much less "Fascist."
...and deep down we're all just stardust. What is your point?
That's because it's utterly impossible to be "socialist" or "leftist" in the same way Rand was ideological - being an unhinged bootlicker has decidedly never been the point of leftism.
Do socialism and leftism have definitions, and if so, what are they, and did Pauline Hopkins, or her fiction, fit those definitions?
*Leftism" doesn't have a hard and fast definition. An idea can be considered leftist if it threatens the status quo - as opposed to an idea that enforces it (which would be considered right-wing).
Socialism does - a condition wherein the working class controls the means of production. An idea that supports this end can be considered socialist (in our current state) whether the holder of such an idea labels it "socialist" or can even spell the word. Therefore, Christ rejecting the idea that people must go hungry by dividing fish and bread - socialist. Hopkins rejecting the tenets of white supremacism - socialist.
I got mine from the Libertarian party, a few decades ago.
They didn't seem too fascistic back then.
Of course they didn't, eh? Of course.
They didn't wear brown, black, or blue uniforms.
They wore no uniforms.
One seemed to like Dead Kennedy's and Black Flag.
Most fascists don't.
And up until very recently a whole bunch of them thought Rage Against The Machine was theirs, too.
They seem most powerful in uniform—I guess that's what helps ties those little sticks together into their mighty hammer, FWIW.
I don't like Rage Against the Machine.
Part of it is musical, I suppose.
Part of it is they support tankies and a group that massacred indigenous peasants in Peru.
Sure. But it also makes knowing who to shoot a whole lot easier, too.
I'm not sure what RATM's deal with the (so-called) "Shining Path" lot was... there's nothing unique about leftists having shit takes or throwing their weight behind the wrong cause. It comes with the territory.
Yes, it does make fascists better targets.
RATM's previous support of Shining Path, or for that matter the USSR, would probably be quite forgivable if they admitted that they made mistakes—confessions, if you will.
Have they written anything about their beliefs, and explaining such, besides very generalized stuff like "fuck capitalism," "fuck imperialism," "fuck fascism," "fuck American foreign policy," "fuck this," "fuck that," whatever?
It's why I'm still ticked at Cat Stevens/Yusef Islam, and his endorsement of the attempted murder of Salman Rushdie, and his later denials of such.