448
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 21 May 2024
448 points (94.6% liked)
News
23376 readers
1645 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
If Palestine became its own state tomorrow, with Gaza and the West Bank, and Israel did everything right as of tomorrow (a big ask, I know), do you think Israel would continue to suffer attacks? For how long? Do you think continued violence is justified because of what Israel is doing now?
I'm interested in a path to peace, but I don't see one. I don't like "free Gaza" because what does that even look like?
If it's just short for "stop genocide" then fine. But I don't see what it can mean past that.
just to clarify, you realize that there was a path to peace, and then Likud/Netanyahu decided to actively help fund and support Hamas to undermine Palestine as a stable state. Specifically to avoid having to give Palestinians statehood (and a democratic vote)?
that to this day, there are significant numbers of Palestinians who do not have a voice in any form of government.
I don't know what the path to peace now looks like - the conflict has gone longer than I've been alive. They came close and the powers that were decided they didn't like that, so they fucked the entire region over. the Hamas attack on oct7- while definitely to be blamed on Hamas- is a direct result of those actions.
I don't know where we'd be had they not taken action to support Hamas over other groups... but it's very clear both the Israeli far right and Hamas are willing participants in a war that's mostly just killing civilians. So, the first step absolutely has to be to stop the violence and restore sanity, and then we can get back to working to a more lasting peace.
Awhile ago, shaky, but maybe.
Absolutely. Also to scare their own citizens into supporting them. He didn't intentionally let Oct 7th happen, but Hamas isn't a pet to be toyed with, either. He used them as a boogyman, empowered them, and then was surprised when they did a small part of what they had threatened to do.
You understand that but say "Israel will continue to get attacked" like that justifies not letting them be free? And Israel is absolutely free to defend itself, but killing more more journalists in a few months than have ever been killed in any single war, evacuating people then bombing the refugee camps, targeting aid workers, and shooting unarmed civilians in the west bank (where there is no combat) is not self defense.
People shit on America for Iraq and Afghanistan, and yeah, those were pretty fucking bad. Somehow Israel is managing to be worse. Objectively, provably worse.
At least 35,647 people have been killed and 79,852 wounded in Israeli attacks on Gaza since October 7. The death toll in Israel from Hamas's October 7 attack is 1,139 with dozens still held captive. Source
460,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war including more than 60% of deaths directly attributable to violence.
You're saying 36 thousand deaths is worth than 460 thousand deaths. I'm not saying what Israel is doing is justified, but it's a hell of a lot more justified than whatever the fuck we were doing in Iraq.
Cool. Now do per capita.
You sure they didn’t let it happen?
The IDF is one of the most capable and well-equipped militaries in the world.
They had reports of training activity. They had been warned by several parties, but the attack still managed.
You don't see a path to peace because you believe most Gazan's want to kill all Israelis.
A claim, I might add, that you state as fact and then post links to the supposed source that doesn't say anything like that at all.
You're either so incredibly biased you don't see your own bias while congratulating yourself on how open minded you are, or you're intentionally trying to lie in a subtle manner to try and sway others.
Given the maliciousness of posting a fake source to claim a non-existent genocidal desire OF A POPULATION CURRENTLY BEING GENOCIDED, I'm guessing the later.
You're right. Maybe 72% of Palestinians are misunderstood. Maybe they only wanted to drag specific Israelis out of their safehouses in the only neighborhoods they could reach and beat and murder and kidnap those people, but not the rest. They really were going to stop right when the IDF happened to show up. What a coincidence.
A besieged populations support of a military operation that had a lower percentage of civilian deaths by at least two, possibly three, orders of magnitude compared to Israels actions over the last 7 months is a far cry from asking people if they support the slaughter of every Israeli, and you know it.
By that same level of evidence and logic, a higher percentage of Israelis want the entire slaughter of the Gazan population.
I will also point out that there is a secondary form of justice for Palestinian people in the west bank and East Jerusalem then there are for the settlers. Palestinian children frequently get arrested (read kidnapped) and sentenced by a military tribunal with no evidence. Whereas the settlers use the IDF as armed guards while they try to ethnically cleanse villages from the west bank, and if they do get arrested they have a jury trial with standards of evidence. To me, those 15,000 Palestinian prisoners are not prisoners, but hostages.
Prisoner vs hostage
Arrest vs kidnap
Support for a military action vs desire for genocide
It's all in the words you use, isn't it?
Thanks for revealing yourself as a subtle genocide defender. I really was curious which one you were.
I'm glad you were able to make the situation so black and white.
It really is.
Any country that intentionally withholds food, medicine, and potable water from a population it considers undesirable is a government intentionally committing genocide.
Is genocide ever justified is a yes or no question. Only one answer makes you a monster
You lied about the results of a survey to imply something the survey didn't ask in order to slander a population being genocided.
Furthermore, you defended that lie with a self-righteous tirade rather than acknowledging your lie.
It's rather beside the point but there are multiple surveys of the Gazan population that asks the questions you lied about and came out with a much different conclusion.