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Have you seen the new show?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2024
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I saw an article the other day talking about how poorly most shows from the past 5-10 years are performing compared to older shows. The top streamed shows are largely from the late 90s to early 2010s.
It truly feels like we're in a quality rut right now.
I'm currently rewatching season 3 of futurama, season 6 of Stargate sg1, season 4 of star trek tng, and I'm thinking of adding Quantum Leap and Battlestar Galactica into the mix.
Most of my shows are definitely 90s-2010ish
Obligatory Babylon 5 comment.
I haven't seen Stargate or Quantum Leap, but I've seen the others so many times. Futurama, especially, is one show that I'm always in the mood for.
I would love to see what a memelord like yourself could do with the fertile ground that is SG1 memes.
We'd love to have you over at chevron7
It's one of those shows that has been on my list for so long. My wife loves it too. I've been meaning to give it a go.
Quantum Leap is just beautiful, and Stargate is fun
Stargate is hands-down my favorite show of all time.. It ties with firefly, but firefly usually takes top spot because it's short and sweet.
Seasons 1-3 are a little rough as with many shows that started out with serialization and all that, but seasons 3.5-6 are great, and seasons 6-10 are some of the best television I've ever seen.
They either learned from star trek, or just figured it out themselves that diplomatic and non action episodes can be just as riveting as action-packed explosion fests. Measure of a Man is first to come to mind for star trek. I'll never skip that episode no matter how bored my wife gets.
The meme potential is endless. And there are so many inside jokes and references use in daily life that nobody else gets.
Ok, I really need to make time for this show...
REALLY!? I mean, I know it's great but also, every time I re-watch it (I think I've done that maybe 2-3 times already) I end up regretting it - and the last time iirc I just abandoned my plan halfway through season 1. I forget now exactly why but I recall that it gets extremely "preachy" near the end - like okay okay in that universe there is no god (except Daniel, obvi:-P), I get it, sheesh, now please move on from that with an actual story to tell. It feels like they were struggling to find a point to continue to base the story on any longer? Atlantis I vaguely recall being better with the whole nanites storyline. And yes, ST-TNG's Measure of a Man is peak sci-fi - this is the stuff we crave, not "me punch bad-guy b/c... well... reasons I guess".
These are all very vague recollections so I am not "advocating" for these positions. Actually, the reason I am saying this is b/c I'm starting to actively look for an excuse to re-watch Stargate again - can you give me a reason to btw? I mean for a person that has already watched it so who knows about the memes and such, but to re-watch it yet again (again)?
I'll try to put it to some more words: maybe SG-1 hits some great high points, but as you mentioned it also has some extremely sludge-fest moments as well? And even as I say this, I realize that I just can't stomach re-watching it all - but is there a resource that puts together only like the good episodes?
Firefly is no comparison imho - every single episode is hand-crafted gold from the master. Most everything by Joss Whedon is - his horror movie, Doll House, everything. Which reminds me I think haven't caught up with his moderately newer stuff so that's maybe what I should do.
And to give some context, since Babylon Five has entered the chat, that show is somehow both great and also boring at the same time. It's great for someone who has never watched it, and maybe once more to re-watch after a few decades have gone by, but as I currently am struggling through the last season, I do see how very different it is from other TV shows, both then at the time and now. Which makes it both great - for someone who has never watched it or needs a reminder - but also not great, for someone just looking to re-watch riveting TV shows, at the same time.
I hope my reminiscings here are more interesting than annoying:-).
Honestly I don't watch seasons 1-3 often. I usually start at the end of season 3 or even up to halfway through season 4.
There are a few continuing stories from earlier seasons, especially the introduction of a few friendly species, but I feel like the recaps will give you enough to go on, and if you're really curious you can read a plot synopsis.
I'm not aware of any sort of unofficial list of must-watch episodes and probably-skips, but a good place to start is the season 3 finale, and go from there.
Replicators (the earlier blockier version of those nanites) infect an Asgard ship (the small Grey aliens) and they come to earth for help. "you came to us because you weren't dumb enough?" is a paraphrased line.
If you don't care about spoilers I could go into a little more detail since it's not quite a multi-part episode, but it does go directly from one to the next in short order.
The first three episodes of s4 are good, IMO. Episode 4 not so much but it does get referenced a lot in later episodes. When my wife and I watched, I gave her a summary of that episode, but she has a shorter attention span. It's a dialogue-heavy episode that kick starts a vendetta for one character. Good if you like drama.
Thank you for the tips, and the validation that it is not just me but the first few seasons really are a sludge, I'll stop trying to guilt myself there I suppose:-).
I do remember an episode cliffhanger (or similar) perhaps at the end of a season about the spaceship that crashed and had the little bots on them. After that iirc it got good, but then after several seasons I lost interest again, but for different reasons it seemed (I just don't recall why exactly, except the preachy thought). All that higher plane of existence I suppose is neat to think about except they treated it like plot magic and never really truly talked about it - probably it was that way on purpose in order to preserve mystery but then it was weird how Daniel came back and overall it came off as laziness even if that was not the actual reason.
More modern shows like The 100 have much better pacing and storylines, even if less of the magic and exploration. I also really enjoyed Farscape as well, which is quite an odd show but somehow works. Babylon Five is almost the opposite, being an odd show that isn't really done as well, but has REALLY good settings as far as actual story. It's definitely a grand space opera, just an odd delivery that feels a little as if the actors are doing improv rather than a professional TV program.
The ascension thing comes back and gets more explained, Daniel dies multiple times (3 maybe?) but the last time is part of a multi-episode arc that shows what his ascension experience is like (this time anyway) and it's more or less understood that he can't die again and expect to come back, and he might not even be able to ascend again period (though I don't believe either are expressly stated, just my take)
Farscape is a great show, and some of the characters even have regular roles in late seasons of sg1.
Did you ever watch any of the ones past Atlantis - like Universe I guess - and if so were they any good at all?
Universe is a very different show.
It's slower paced, it feels a little bit like they were trying to cash in on the "mysterious things happen" and "long continuous story that if you miss one or two episodes you might be completely Lost", pun intended since it feels like that's the energy they were going for, from Lost.
Personally, I liked it. It's slower paced than Atlantis was, less action packed, and heavily focuses on character drama.
And also leaves a massive fucking cliffhanger to end the series, from my understanding. I haven't finished it because I knew they canceled it without finishing the story.
I love Eureka, but poor decisions were made regarding the sg-1/eureka "rivalry". Basically the funding and attention left Stargate and went to eureka. They should both have recieved the attention they deserved but that's a whole other rant lmao
So, while I REALLY enjoyed SG-1 the first time around, what would you say makes the show "worth it" for a re-watch these days? Nostalgia/reminiscing is enough on its own, for a more rare rewatch (like Babylon Five except that one I never watched live - I knew I couldn't follow if I missed an episode so I just noped out entirely, then caught it later), but you made it sound like more than that. Was it just great for a first-time experience, to see things not normally seen in usual TV fare, or is there value in more?
I'm completely biased when recommending this show to people, I re-watch it at least once a year. Sometimes I take a few years off, but I'm in the middle of a rewatch now.
I watched it when it first ran, I was too young to really care about it in the first few seasons (good thing too since I might have lost interest) but by the time season 10 rolled out I was graduating and wanted the dvd set as a graduation present (which I never got)
If you're looking for some kind of "deep" meaning in a show, or overarching message (beyond general team-work and helping each other gets the job done for everyone type stuff) in a show, I don't personally think there is one, and would disappoint someone who wants one.
I like to think everything they talk about is pretty relevant even today. Politically they're fairly neutral for US politics, though keep in mind it's a show about a military team in a military base doing military things, so everything is pretty often making the military look good, or "just get rid of this damn red tape " on a few occasions, but they do a pretty good job of showing how absolutely wrong the military and government are, to the point where in real life the characters would all have been courtmartialled for disobeying idiotic military protocols and bad orders.
Daniel in particular can get preachy about doing the right thing no matter what, and O'Neill basically tells him " stop being so preachy" on a few occasions.
The pacing of the show picks up as the seasons go on, and it gets more action-filled in the latter half. They also start mixing a lot of philosophy type stuff in here and there. Less so on the later seasons.
Mild generalized plot ahead:
Season 5 is where they really start leaning toward continuing stories from earlier episodes. Also introduces a villain that will play major parts in seasons 6-8. One of the final episodes is a gut punch that introduces a new recurring character.
Season 6 introduces a villain that will start out small but eventually become galaxy-threatening, and continues into one of the post-series movies. Also expands on the second Stargate from Antarctica and how that got to be there.
Season 7 introduces an Ancient outpost, which leads them to what they need to get to Atlantis. Also Richard Dean Andersons less frequent appearance on the show.
Season 8 reintroduces the replicators as bad guys, and this time they're not all blocky and insectoid. Also surprise return of a once-vanquished enemy. Actually like... 2 or 3 now that I think of it.
Season 9 introduces a new team leader (Ben browder, aka Chrichton from Farscape) and Claudia black (aeryn sun) is a recurring character that eventually becomes a full time member of the team. New villains introduced and shit hits the fan pretty quickly.
Season 10 is a futuristic holy crusade from evil energy aliens using humans to do their dirty work and subjugate another galaxy. A couple old villains pop up here and there but are usually smaller episode arcs or bottle episodes.
The show got canceled and the story never finished in the show run, but they had a few movies to try and wrap up the remaining plots that were supposed to take place over 1-3 more seasons.
If you want a good episode to start with, try season 4 episode 6 "window of opportunity". It's a Groundhog Day episode that has some pretty great comedic bits as well as, I think, a pretty good representation of sg1 as a whole. It's got a little of everything.
If you want to skip to more modern style of TV that still feels early 00s, season 6 is a good place to start, but I'd recommend reading plot summaries for most of the earlier episodes if you do that. It's time consuming but you won't be lost.
If all that sounds unappealing.... We'll then I guess it's not for you, but still give s4e06 a try just for gits and shiggles.
That is genuinely SO, SO good that you acknowledge that. Though totally appropriate here b/c I asked, and wanted your thoughts precisely because you see the good in it.:-)
Ofc the chief reason to watch it in the first place is all the philosophizing, but then the chief reason to RE-watch it would be mainly nostalgia - though ngl that might be enough right there, especially since iirc I hadn't yet watched any of Farscape when I did my last re-watch of the SG-1 series.
To be clear it's not quite "action" that I'm looking for, but something making the show worth watching, rather than a checkbox-ticking exercise, which unfortunately I recall many of the episodes being:-(. Then again, you've explained well that it was mainly the first few seasons that were that way, so indeed, perhaps if I skip those then it would be worth it. Or maybe there's a list doing that for each episode individually - I'll check it out sometime!:-)
Thanks for sharing your passion with me for a moment!:-)
I probably keep hitting on the action-y bits for the same reason I do when talking about star trek, modern audiences kind of expect shows with any sort of action to be SUPER action packed. My wife especially is guilty of this. The only slow type of show she likes are murder shows.
And honestly I'd say if you're 15 minutes in and aren't liking an episode, you can probably skip it in the first 4 or 5 seasons.
I'm weird. I tune out action just like I tune out non-action:-). I'm not sure how to describe it.
Like looking back, ST-TNG wasn't really all that good, yet I liked it anyway and can't really recall it being "slow" or anything. It's not "dramatic" per se but it's somehow interesting nonetheless.
Then DS9 blew my mind - and not (just) bc of the action, but the significantly deeper amount of drama they were able to work in by having a stable surrounding. e.g. Kira being an actual terrorist and being tempted in a way that most Starfleet officers would not be. What is the right thing to do... truly!?
But Enterprise, despite having MUCH more action, just wasn't worth even a single watch-through. Maybe some of it, like the time travel, but especially at the end the show just sucked.:-( I've never watched a show that bad, but bc it was Star Trek... I forced myself through by playing games while the show was playing in the background:-).
So it's not "action" that makes a story good, at least not alone, imho. Though I am no expert and don't really know what does. Something about the craft of it - foreshadowing and callbacks and other tricks, pacing and revelations and character development, all of it. I don't know enough to talk about or even recognize the specific artifacts of the craft, just the hints that it is vaguely there, or not, which due to different writers, producers, etc. can vary from episode to episode even within a single season.
I'm on a nostaglia binge lately, currently on Season ten of Stargate SG1, season 2 of the original Quantum Leap, Season 3 of Stargate Atlantis, Season 5 of Jeremy Bretts Sherlock Holmes.
The modern ones just doesn't hit.
There's a non-original quantum leap? Pass.
That's like when someone was talking to me about how much they loved MacGyver, only to find out that someone made a reboot. And apparently it's not great, but I haven't seen it so I have no idea. I also have no desire to see it because you don't improve upon perfection.
Also it's great watching O'Neill (two Ls) put a teenage Teal'c in his place with a little humility in one episode. Some small paypack for future boxing workouts on base I guess. It's always weird hearing Christopher judge speak normally instead of his Teal'c speech pattern.
I'm kinda pumped for season 9 of futurama though. Reboot fatigue is definitely a thing but I don't mind it when futurama does it. It just won't stay dead!
I don't really watch a lot of TV, but that certainly sounds like what stays on my TV pretty much all the time to keep the house from being too quiet.
I think it's the overstaturation and the nature of streaming. People used to watch scheduled shows and talk about them the next day. That's not a thing anymore. Not to mention, entertainment is much more polarizing now that everyone has their own online echo-chamber.
I think it's far more about nostalgia. Of course the same people who have watched the office 100 times over are going to watch it 100 times again. They aren't looking to be entertained, they're looking to veg out and not think (which I suppose to some is entertainment). NFL
Plus I can't even think of a popular show in the past 10 years that had a meaningful conclusion. I don't really watch a lot of TV so this could easily just be that I'm out of the loop, but it seems like a lot of endings are bad.
Justified ended in 2015, Better Call Saul wrapped up in 2022. I think those two qualify as solid conclusions. It speaks to your point that I could only readily come up with two examples.
People used to listen to entire albums over and over again, each time getting new perspective on the music. And people re-read their favorite novels over and over again.
I think that's what we're doing with TV. We know what joke is coming, so we can watch other things in the background that we didn't catch the first time.
At least that's what I'll tell myself on my fifth rewatch of SG1.
Yeah, I'm wrapping up my annual-ish rewatch of South Park and definitely enjoying all the little background things I never picked up on previously, and also the random plot points that have new meaning based on events that occurred after they originally aired.
I can see the logic in that. Nothing wrong with rewatching something with new perspective you had compared to the first go around. I just know people who have watched the Office an obscene amount of times, and personally I just can't do it. I thought the Office was really funny, but not watch it every day for 10 years funny. That's just me, though - obviously different strokes for different folks.
Also, damn I haven't seen SG1 since I was a wee lad. So many good SciFi shows back then, I think I might have to rewatch it myself.
I mean, that's the problem you get when so much is readily archived. If whatever's currently coming out sucks, there's so much history to pull the greatest hits from that you can just...stop watching new content. For years. Possibly ever.
I have noticed shows and movies lately have been very choppy, almost like they're trying to chain together a bunch of tiktoks and calling it a movie. The dialogue has also gotten pretty terrible, like AI is writing it. It doesn't sound human.
It might just be because the public is now spread over so many services...
Are those morons trying to compare the numbers from years ago when you had like one or two nation wide channels with the modern landscape? And the one episode was announced like a week ahead and everybody would be tuning in to watch it at the same time. Now you stream an entire show at will.
It's moronic to want to use the same metric as a measure of success when clearly the entire landscape has changed.
With streaming you can watch what you want and not the "ehh, there's nothing else on" shows. Studios are still making those low effort, watch because you have to if you want to watch anything at all shows, and maybe it's a feeling of not being in a target audience but they are mostly that these days. Maybe even more so than before, because the studios now don't have a reasonable expectation that people are just gonna watch it because it is on.
They have a pseudo incentive to produce a higher amount of cheap lazy garbage to flood the market with something, anything, that might grab attention and become a hit, whereupon they might invest more into it. They've really been lowering the bar, over and over, and as the bar lowers more and more people aren't stupid enough to follow along and just watch whatever. Why watch modern garbage when there are yesteryear classics that were made with passion, at least enough to veneer over the ever-present profit incentive.
Probably will be for at least another year or two. The creatives need time to cook and they took a huge unplanned hiatus last summer protecting their jobs
Not aided by an aversion to commitment. Netflix especially loves to cancel shows after one or two seasons... despite a decade of The Office being their bread and butter. They should be promising creators a budget directly correlated with some desirable metric. Your thing is what five million subscribers are obviously sticking around for? Here's half the budget of last year, when it was ten. You can decide whether that's enough to do another season. Oh it was? And it worked? And now it's twenty million? Great, here's a shitload of money, keep going.
For some reason Netflix seems to be more interested in new subscribers than keeping their current subscribers. Probably because a lot of users just keep the account once they get it, even if they don't use it all that much.