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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
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Hey that was me back when I had a kbin account. I'm the account in the screenshot.
That was a direct response to someone asking if I would have sex with a trans man. I got accused of being a chaser for saying "sure, I guess, pre-transition" (the first part) and being a transphobe for saying "but I'm not sexually attracted to dicks" (the second part). Note those two accusations are more or less mutually exclusive, but it doesn't matter because they're both deeply, incredibly stupid accusations. The mods and admins of blahaj pointed out how incredibly stupid the accusations were, and some people didn't like being called stupid, so they went back to hexbear. And continued to be stupid.
To use an analogy, imagine you're fat and trying to lose weight. Someone admits they are attracted to you, "sure, as long as you're still fat". Can you see how this would not be a good basis for a healthy relationship? You could even say it is a sign of a "chubby chaser". Likewise for transness.
Also, people are overly sensitive because being denied full/legitimate relationships is a frequent pain point for trans people (esp trans women). The classic trope is the boyfriend who will take you on dates but refuse to introduce you to his friends/relatives.
So yeah, I can see why a queer friendly instance would defederate an instance whose admins promote/defend that sort of rhetoric. Hexbear might have jumped the gun (as I told them at the time- the turnaround time was less than 24 hours and the head admin had no chance to respond) but the blahaj admins weren't great either
Some people like being fat. Some people like being women.
A person who likes bobs and vagene entering a committed relationship with a trans man would be toxic. Ditto for a person who likes fat people entering a committed relationship with someone who is trying to lose weight. That said, firstly, I don't see anything wrong with a one-night stand in either of those scenarios, which is what the original question was, and secondly, more importantly, you'd have to stretch really hard to say that a person who's into a little chub and a person who's perfectly happy having a little chub entering a committed relationship is in any way problematic. OP is into women. If anyone unironically tries to call someone a pussy-chaser I'm going to recommend them for commitment.
OP saying he'd have sex with a trans man who hadn't transitioned yet is no different than a lover of booty saying they'd have sex with someone who hadn't lost weight yet. Sure, it might be a little confusing and/or disheartening for his potential sexual partner to be told that he likes them for the one aspect of themselves that they're working to change, but if it's only for one night, and that person otherwise has a good support network, and, most importantly, it's two consenting adults, I don't see the harm.
Ok I went and looked it up, the original question in the screenshot was about specifically dating and specifically trans men. Not a one night stand, and not someone who likes being a woman
Yeah, if you're deeply stupid. Or, as you suggested, so traumatized by life that you have no understanding of normal human interrepationships. Just because you are open to the idea of having sex with a fat person, that does not make you a chubby chaser. That's not at all what that means.
In your analogy, the proper response for the fat person would be "that makes me feel bad" and NOT "you are a bad person". Take some ownership for your feelings. People are allowed to have sexual preferences. That is 100% normal. If it's triggering for you, then it's on you to manage your response, not lash out.
Understatement of the year. I think we need to acknowledge that some trans communities can get extremely toxic. Woe unto you if you get caught in their crosshairs for whatever reason. Sure, this may stem from trauma or transphobia/discrimination, but we shouldn't pretend it's not a thing.
My pet theory is that trans people are excluded from so many groups that groups of trans people by necessity get very insular. And insular groups tend towards shittiness, almost universally.
It's not just being attracted, it's being attracted conditional on the person having x characteristic (that they might not even want to have). That's the very definition of fetishizing/objectifying and it's not toxic to criticize it.
I will grant that this is more of an issue for relationships than for hookups etc. As a wise woman once told me- chasers are gross, but they also help pay her rent, so really it's impossible to say if they're bad or not.
Wait
So literally every single heterosexual or homosexual person is a "chaser"??
Potentially yes, they can exhibit similar patterns. In fact lots of cishet women have also complained about being objectified because their (potential) dating partner is attracted not to the whole package but to a specific part of them- it's a classic feminist talking point. The "chaser" label gets added when the person being objectified is marked as deviant in some way. But it's def not just cishet men who are capable of it.
Wow.
To be clear, being a chaser is transphobic.
Sure, depending on how you define chaser, but it's not applicable here.
How is it not transphile?
Because chasers undermine the expressed gender identity of trans individuals for the sake of their own sexual pleasure. Calling it "transphilic" is just semantical wordplay that dismisses the inherently predatory nature of chasers.
I don't get it.
How is it undermining that and not affirming? I mean to fetishise a group is wrong, I get that and that is also my opinion but if they want to fuck a transwoman they want that because she is a woman which affirms the womanhood?
And the point is how is it transhate if you like the trans aspect specifically. Doesn't make sense to me.
It is not a wordplay it is what those words mean. Phobic means something like hate or fear and phile means something like love or attraction.
The poor thing thinks words mean whatever they decide they mean. They're not capable of explaining their position in an intelligent way, either.
No, chasers are people that specifically fetishize transwomen or transmen for being trans.
Hmm okay. But the I still don't understand how it is transphobic.
Do you see why fetishizing black people for their skin coloris racist? Its similar to that.
I can see that. But that wouldn't be "negrophobic" either. Not everything negativ in the context of a group is phobia.
You don't understand how undermining someone's gender identity by focusing on them being trans over them being their expressed gender is transphobic?
No.
Edit: as phobic means you want to get away from something or don't want it to exist. Fetishising is the exact opposite.
If someone is arachnophobic that doesn't mean he wants to fuck a spider or undermine the identity of the spider. That someone wants the spider be gone because it is a spider.
Fetishizing is also phobic.
This whole exchange could be more productive if you could explain your opinions.
They're arguing that being sexually attracted to something is a phobia, the definition of which is having an irrational fear of something.
Do you really think this person has the ability to string enough words together to justify their opinion?
I hoped so.
Did you read the original reddit thread? Chasers are dangerous to the trans community. It isn't about being attracted to trans individuals, it's about specifically seeking them out for being trans and fetishizing them being trans.
Can you not see how this may look if you are the trans person in this relationship?
What do you think the word "phobia" means, just out of interest?
I'm not stupid, I know it means "fear of." Do you think Homophobes are "afraid" of gay people? What abiut transphobes? In the context of bigotry, phobia is used to refer to invalidating or undermining ones sexuality, gender identity, etc.
Literally talk to a trans person, or just read through that thread, it isn't difficult.
Yes.
Also yes.
That is the outcome of the irrational fear people feel towards those people.
Someone attracted to trans people because they are trans would be transphilic, not transphobic.
Talk to trans people about how they feel about lumping anti-trans views into the "transphile" category because rather than being hated outright, chasers simply prey on trans individuals and undermine their gender identity in a sickeningly fetishizing way.
Just touch grass.
This is the most bizarre stand I've seen someone take online, and that's really saying something. Phobic means an irrational fear or disgust off something, these people are clearly neither afraid or disgusted of trans people.
You're really gonna have to start writing more than one sentence per comment if you want anyone here to know what the fuck you're on about
I wrote a lot more than 1 sentence in the beginning and linked a good thread with a bunch of trans individuals discussing said topic. They aren't adding anything, just playing semantics with philic vs phobic.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phobia
It doesn't sound like they're afraid to me?
Someone upvoted this idiotic take, and whoever it was, I'm disappointed in you.
It sounds like the polar opposite to me.