43
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
43 points (93.9% liked)
vegan
6787 readers
4 users here now
:vegan-liberation:
Welcome to /c/vegan and congratulations on your first steps toward overcoming liberalism and ascending to true leftist moral superiority.
Rules
No plant-based diet bullshit or promotion of plant-based capitalism.
Veganism isn't about you, it's about historical materialist anti-speciesism, anti-racist animalization, and animal liberation. Ethical vegans only.No omni apologists or carnists.
Babystepping is for libs, and we're not here to pat you on the back. Good faith questions and debate about how to fight for animal liberation are allowed.No advocating violence to any species for any reason.
If you think this is negotiable GTFO. This includes but is not limited to animal testing, slaughter, and mass euthanasia. Anything that promotes speciesism or the commodification of animals will be removed.Use Content Warnings and NSFW tags for triggering content.
Especially if a comrade requests it.Questions about diet belong in
c/food. It's also a great place to share recipes.In all sections of the site, you must follow the
Hexbear.net Code of Conduct.
Resources
Animal liberation and direct action
- Animal Liberation Press (ALF)
- Wiki on Ethical Veganism
- Wiki on the Animal Liberation Front
- Wiki on Total Liberation
- Different approaches to AL direct action
- Earth First! manual and tactics
- Support prisoners of conscience: Vegan Prisoners Support Group (UK)
- If someone tells you to put some paint on your hands, tag some buildings and then go turn yourself into the police - your "rebellion" is a fucking op
Read theory, libs
- 18 Theses on Marxism and Animal Liberation
- Racism as Zoological Witchcraft: A Guide to Getting Out
- Animal Liberation
- The Death of Nature
- The Case for Animal Rights
- Anarchism and Animal Liberation
- Total Liberation
- The Unbearable Whiteness of Milk
- Speciesism as a Precondition to Justice
- Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation
- Citations Needed on media portrayals of animal rights activists
- The Jungle
Vegan 101 & FAQs
- Black Vegans Rock resources page
- Animal Rights: The Abolitionist Approach FAQs
- 30 Non-Vegan Excuses & How to Respond to Them
- Guide to justifications for harming and exploiting animals
- Your Vegan Fallacy Is
- The Radical Left’s Top 10 Objections to Veganism (And Why They Suck)
- Animal Liberation Front FAQs
If you have any great resources or theory you think belong in this sidebar, please message one of the comm's mods
Take B12. :vegan-edge:
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
I'm gonna assume good faith here, but please note that this community is not for carnists or apologists.
To start, you're conflating two very strange things here: "not everybody can" and/or "not everybody wants"
To address the first concern of "can," yes, it's true that not literally every single individual on the planet has the capacity, practically speaking, to live a vegan lifestyle. However, please note that this is usually a way of people who are not in these situations at all (as they are extremely rare situations) formulating themselves a "pass" for why they can't go vegan.
Carnists have a very prominent tendency to make bad excuses for rejecting veganism, things that are easy to work around, but they'll believe that these excuses are anything but because the truth of the matter is that they do not take animal liberation seriously. If you don't think that it's a bad thing for a pig to be slammed into a gas chamber and slaughtered for a ham sandwich, it's so easy to be like "pork is just so damn tasty" and take that as a solid justification due to how carnism has been casually enabled in society to such a strong degree.
Carnists overwhelmingly outnumber vegans by a ton, and it's a far more socially acceptable position to be in than being vegan, so it's really fascinating that when vegans do have the time and space to speak up for beings that are being oppressed en masse while they're quite literally voiceless, carnists have to be like "but pwease think about what I feel when you say mean words about the grossly unethical industries I fund on a daily basis." "
To address the second concern of "want," merely what a person wants to do is an absolutely unacceptable way of handling ethics. This could be used to justify a lot of horrendous behaviors that I'm pretty sure you and many other people would condemn outright, no matter how much a sick and depraved individual simply "wants" to do it.
Last of all is this. This is the "reductionist" or "utilitarian" approach to veganism, but it's a very odd stance to hold. Hell, it's even more odd than just straight-up believing that you should give absolutely zero moral consideration to animals.
On the subject of giving animals moral consideration, why do you simultaneously believe that animals deserve moral consideration but also simply wanting to needlessly kill them for food justifies it? That sounds rather contradictory. It'd be like saying "We should reduce our racism to a minimum, but also, if you have a desire to call a racial minority a slur, feel free to do it!"
Furthermore, it's very arbitrary to have a notion of "reducing" animal exploitation to a minimum. If you don't have a guideline denoting that animal exploitation is inherently bad and to be rejected, what sets your metrics for aiming to be reduce it? In other words, if you're not rejecting animal exploitation entirely, how do you know that you're rejecting it enough?
The reducetarian mentality does not have an ethical backbone, so it can be shifted at any given moment. Even if you wanted to consider a somewhat practical example: imagine someone reducing their animal product consumption to being only 5 days a week, and on weekends, they eat an entirely plant-based diet. If they had a Saturday night where they're craving a steak really bad, is there really any sensible factor in their perceived code of animal ethics to get them to reject saying "Fuck it, I'll have a steak tonight anyway even though it's Saturday." Trying to draw arbitrary lines on when you're "allowed" to eat non-vegan doesn't work just because of that—it's highly arbitrary!
If somebody said "We need to simply reduce our racism," I'd find that abhorrent, especially since it's so damn inconsiderate of the victims of racism. Such a mentality strives to grant convenience to the oppressor, the racist, and it doesn't consider the victim in the regard that they deserve to be considered. This is how the abolitionist vegan mentality perceives reductetarianism, in that if you transition from 7 days of week in which you consume animal flesh and secretions to only 5 days in which you do so, the animals you eat on those 5 days will not care about the ones you supposedly save on those 2 days that you hold as abstinence days.
Good effort post
Serious answer: Eating your murdered victims is the only drastic diet anyone's advocating here, and it's only you.