805
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
805 points (96.7% liked)
politics
19096 readers
2780 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Ok but what if, now hear me out... the Democrats were correct about 2016 and 2000?
Plus this is the first I've heard of the 2004 issue vs hundreds of times hearing about 2016 and 2000.
With hundreds of millions of people in a country, there is a zero percent chance everybody accepts the truth, but unless I just missed something really big the 2004 election was not seriously contested. And no I'm not some kid who wasn't around to hear about it. I was a news consuming adult even back then.
Feels like you were stretching to make a both sides argument.
I vividly remember the 2004 voting machine issues. It was the first general election with widespread use of computerized voting software, in the wake of the 2000 election disaster, and there was a lot of evidence that the machines could be tampered with quite easily. I'm not sure if there is real evidence that they were actually tampered with, but the fact the machines were not open source and demonstrably falsifiable is in itself alarming.
I don't recall any talk about the 2016 election being illegitimate. The results were horrifying obviously, and we were shocked the polls were so wrong, but actual fraud? I don't think so.
Indeed. All the claims about Russian interference were that they used propaganda to push people to vote for Trump, not that the election itself was fraudulent. It's ridiculous to compare "Hostile foreign actors are manipulating people" with "The outgoing president actually won the election and thus should remain in office despite all the evidence to the contrary."
Trump used 2004 as a starting point for Jan 6th, then added a riot. In order to stop the counting, you need a house and senate member to object to a particular vote (I'm actually in the house district of the guy who objected in 2020, and campaigned for his opponent). The concerns over vote switching were so bad in 2004 that most of the democratic states switched over to having paper trails. From what I remember, Ohio polling was constantly showing a Bush loss and the CEO of Diebold was running around saying "No, those are our machines, Bush will win", and then Bush did.
I felt like trying to say Clinton's impeachment was the R's not accepting the legitimacy of his election was a stretch also. Seems OP is trying to make the facts fit his point.
not that there's like mountains of evidence to prove that or anything /s
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
Dunno about 2000, I was 4 years old, but 2016 was the typical action movie "evil foreign hackers hijacking our great 'Murrican democracy" thing, only told by Democrats. That is, as somebody living in Russia I can't take this seriously.
Russian interference was proven to be true.
Not to mention, if you want to talk about a comically evil villain, invading Ukraine was a comically evil villain thing to do.
Proven by whom?
And how do you imagine that comical villain managing a much more complex operation?
NRA takes foreign money. NRA takes American donors money. NRA does gun education. NRA does political ads for Trump. It is illegal for foreign money to pay for political ads. NRA takes the Russian money, uses it to do gun education. NRA take the American donor's money that was going to gun education and puts it towards Trump ads. Perfectly legal money laundering, but still Russian interference.
It's not about interference, it's about that interference being sufficient to call Trump's victory a result of Russian interference. And if it's logical OR of all inputs, then I'm sure you can call Biden's victory the same.
So it is ok to do bad things if they don't change the outcome?
Don't move the goalposts. Somebody said that the 2016 election was falsified. It wasn't.
Russian interference was proven in the Mueller report.
Bad faith trolls like to scream "the Mueller report exhonerated Trump" which is wrong. It concluded that Russian interference was real, and there was evidence of collision with the Trump campaign, but insufficient evidence to charge him of the crime.
Russia's #1 export is misinformation troll farms. It's really decided to make itself the shitstain of the entire planet.
Oh, I'm not arguing there was some input of power in that direction. Be it by Russia or by Turkey\Azerbaijan or by Israel or by Saudi Arabia or whatever, I'm arguing that its results are negligible and it doesn't explain Trump winning at all.
Because everyone knows Russian citizens know everything their Putzin leader is up to. Too funny.
Because Russian citizens know from their daily life Russian state's capabilities and general competence, and you don't. Which is obvious.
Totally bro. Sure.