209
submitted 8 months ago by Evilphd666@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I am seeing the point made in this thread that the many Ultra-Orthodox are opposed to Zionism or even the existence of a Jewish state.

Is that actually correct?

I was under the impression that outside of some commie-adjacent groups, there are virtually NO Israeli Jews who do not support Zionism.

There are Ultra-Orthodox sects outside of Israel that believe there should not be a Jewish state, but I was not aware of groups inside Israel that hold to that?

Like the Haredim, I was under the impression that they are every bit as Zionist as secular Israeli Jews if not more so, but that doesn’t mean they want to serve in the IOF. I thought their whole thing was that Israel is only held together by their devout commitment to studying the Torah and praying. And to force them to do anything other than studying the Torah means that Israel will incur God’a wrath. But in terms of killing Palestinians, they are a-ok with that.

Or am I completely wrong here?

[-] Maturin@hexbear.net 21 points 8 months ago

Your confusion is extremely understandable and it is really hard to get a goo viewpoint into this exact issue from basically anywhere outside of the Haredi communities themselves. What makes it even harder is that there is not lock-step uniformity among "ultra-orthodox" Jews either in Palestine or outside. Traditionally, all Haredi Jews were anti-Zionist since they believed in the Jewish religion which, itself, is an anti-Zionist faith: some of the biggest offenses you can commit in the Jewish religion are (1) try to establish a Jewish state in the holy land (or even enter the holy land) through any means other than literally waiting for the literal God to literally come back to earth and literally resurrect the King David, thereby re-establishing God's kingdom on earth, (2) stealing anything from anyone, and (3) killing anybody. This is why Jewish communities rejected Zionism for 1800 years even though they knew what it was. HOWEVER, since the founding of the state, there have been massive campaigns to pressure the traditional religious adherents to adopt Zionism, including creation of new religious schools that are based on a Zionist version of Judaism. Making it even harder to distinguish from the outside - several communities of "ultra-orthodox" Jews in Palestine are comprised of former non-Haredi Jews who have adopted more traditional lifestyles while retaining their core Zionism. Add on top of that the general prejudices, racism, reactionism, etc. that already find fertile ground in fundamentalist communities of all monotheist religions, and you end up with a lot of people who look the same, dress the same, and talk the same taking radically different sides of the Zionism issue. However, the traditional Haredi communities who, for example, serve in the Knesset have often been anti-Zionist and, according to them, the reason they serve in the Knesset protect the traditional Jewish religious practice from the secular state that they fear. This has allowed them to ally with (or at least not oppose) genocidal, secular Zionists when they are doing ethnic cleansing in Palestinian territories because the primary concern of these ministers is letting them shut down their neighborhoods on the sabbath or prevent women form praying next to the men at the Western Wall, etc.

[-] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago

Thank you for helping me understand this all much better.

[-] TheDeed@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago
this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
209 points (99.1% liked)

news

23925 readers
824 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS