467
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2024
467 points (99.0% liked)
World News
39021 readers
870 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Why would they want to control the gas facility?
But that gas goes through Ukraine. They could have stopped it at any time.
Cut off tail of snake and it will eventually grow back. Cut off head of snake and it cannot grow back.
Everybody beheading snakes until the octopus arrives.
Yeah then you just remove the beak
But Ukraine was making a ton of money transporting Russian gas over their territory (before the war). Presumably they want the war to end with some kind of agreement that restores this deal, no?
They where making a lot of money there. But Russia was making more money and used it to stash a fund that allows them to finance this war and stave off the effects of the sanctions.
Ukraine will need to do much rebuilding anyway.. this allows them to leave Russia with a destroyed gas node and less income all the while keeping plausible deniability on who destroyed it. Russians blow up stuff "they did not mean to" all the time. No need to question who is to blame for the destruction of the node.. it's the party that started shooting.
Plus it gives Orban something to explain back home too once his citizens end up in the cold. Or he needs to pivot and spend his euros elsewhere meaning less money for Russia.
Win-win-win...
Russia has consistently used that gas as leverage over Ukraine and the EU for the past 20 years or so.
And the EU was happy to buy it instead of transitioning away from it, thinking trading with Russia would pacify it.
Sure, if the agreement is that Ukraine gets gas for free for the next 100 years as part of reperations russia has to pay.
?
By blowing it up and causing an ecological disaster in their own country?
There should be cut off valves where they could have done it safely, but this is Russian built, they used positive power coefficients on their nuclear power plants...
You can't count on common sense safety measures.
There are definitely cut-off valves. Ukraine already considered cutting off the gas but decided not to.
Sabotaging a gas line does a lot to damage your own position because natural gas is VERY toxic. Controlling the source though is ALL power
There's shutoff valves, they don't need to blow it up. That's why the story about Russia supposedly blowing up nordstream never made sense either.
They would be liable to be sued for massive amounts for breach of contract of they just shut it off normally. The pipe destruction got them off that hook.
(i'm personally not 100% sure who did it, but there were realistic reasons for Russia to do it)
Sued in which court, which would enforce it how exactly? Russia is already doing a whole invasion in breach of international law, (Putin is a defendant personally for war crimes) and the West has basically already sanctioned all assets within its reach.
sure.
i didn't claim the Kremlin to be the most rational people in the world.
It makes sense if the idea is that they want to force EU to use (fund) the new pipelines elsewhere.
That's a direct pipeline, it seems. Goes straight to the EU.
There's a different pipeline (maybe several, not sure) going through Ukraine.
Sabotage all the metering, etc. and let Ukraine and EU receive as much as they can for free.
And then just hold it. If Russia tries to reclaim it, they end up bombing their own pipeline.
If they cut it off they remove the one entry point of gas into the EU crippling the export.
Im sure the EU wouldnt be very happy either but they diversified over the last 2 years away from russian gas.
On the other hand holding it also opens the door for concessions from Russia.
Most of the EU is fine with it, it's basically just the governments of Hungary and Slovakia throwing a hissy fit
Fucking Wah Wah.
Those countries had a chance to be on the right side of history, and they screwed the pooch. Enjoy freezing in a couple of months.
As a Slovak person, currently horribly embarrassed for my own proto-fascist government, I wholeheartedly agree. We've had our chance, but majority of voters over here are mentally 50 years in the past and brainwashed by Russian disinfo campaigns. We really are gullible idiots.
EDIT: That said, it's mostly just our government making performative noise for benefit of its voter base. We are not affected nowhere near as much by Ukraine's current gas block as they want you to believe.
The gas is transiting via Ukraine already (which... what?!) so they could have cut it off anytime before, I don't see how gaining control over one station more changes anything... I'm sure there's some info we are missing here.
Blowing up a pipeline produces more risks as the gas is toxic and now you have a fireball on your land.
Better to cut it off at the source and sabotage any attempt to restore it.
Blowing up? You just close it. A pipeline has hundreds of valves and compressors along the way, no need to blow it up if it goes through your territory.