125
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
125 points (98.4% liked)
Canada
7185 readers
580 users here now
What's going on Canada?
Communities
🍁 Meta
🗺️ Provinces / Territories
- Alberta
- British Columbia
- Manitoba
- New Brunswick
- Newfoundland and Labrador
- Northwest Territories
- Nova Scotia
- Nunavut
- Ontario
- Prince Edward Island
- Quebec
- Saskatchewan
- Yukon
🏙️ Cities / Local Communities
- Calgary (AB)
- Edmonton (AB)
- Greater Sudbury (ON)
- Halifax (NS)
- Hamilton (ON)
- Kootenays (BC)
- London (ON)
- Mississauga (ON)
- Montreal (QC)
- Nanaimo (BC)
- Oceanside (BC)
- Ottawa (ON)
- Port Alberni (BC)
- Regina (SK)
- Saskatoon (SK)
- Thunder Bay (ON)
- Toronto (ON)
- Vancouver (BC)
- Vancouver Island (BC)
- Victoria (BC)
- Waterloo (ON)
- Winnipeg (MB)
🏒 Sports
Hockey
- List of All Teams: Post on /c/hockey
- General Community: /c/Hockey
- Calgary Flames
- Edmonton Oilers
- Montréal Canadiens
- Ottawa Senators
- Toronto Maple Leafs
- Vancouver Canucks
- Winnipeg Jets
Football (NFL)
- List of All Teams:
unknown
Football (CFL)
- List of All Teams:
unknown
Baseball
- List of All Teams:
unknown - Toronto Blue Jays
Basketball
- List of All Teams:
unknown - Toronto Raptors
Soccer
- List of All Teams:
unknown - General Community: /c/CanadaSoccer
- Toronto FC
💻 Universities
💵 Finance / Shopping
- Personal Finance Canada
- BAPCSalesCanada
- Canadian Investor
- Buy Canadian
- Quebec Finance
- Churning Canada
🗣️ Politics
- Canada Politics
- General:
- By Province:
🍁 Social and Culture
Rules
Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage:
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
Sounds like Canada should put a 50% tax on gasoline powered vehicles.
So, I drive an EV already but here's the rub with just taxing gas powered vehicles.
I still believe some people need (or should use) gas vehicles currently.
The first case is for people who have no access to a charger at their home (primarily condo dwellers, since home owners can easily install them) This should be regulated by the government, every condo should be required to upgrade their parking to include a certain percentage of chargers. We don't need more chargers at random places around the city like we have with gas stations, vehicles should always be charged wherever they happen to sit overnight.
I've had an EV for 3 years now, and I've never once needed a fast charger, I've never driven more than 400km in a single day so overnight level 2 charging is perfectly fine for me, I even used only the standard wall-socket level 1 charger for 4 months when I first got the car. It was do-able but a bit annoying.
The second case is for long distance drivers and/or towing, if you drive more than 2x your battery range in a day as a normal action then EVs just aren't yet sufficient for you. This is common if you need to tow heavy things, because the towing range on EVs is absolute shit so 2x that battery range isn't very far. A ford f150 lightning is fine for hauling your trailer around the suburbs for your yard maintenance business, but if you tow farm equipment a few hundred kilometers a day to different farms, it's not going to work with the current options.
Third, People who already have vehicles. When you replace it, go EV, don't bother until then. If you are a low distance driver, when you go to replace your vehicle, buy a used gas vehicle not a new one. EVs make more sense both financially and environmentally the more use they get.
These issues are all getting sorted out (slowly) but we aren't done with gas vehicles just yet so I'd rather see the taxes on the Gas than on the Vehicle itself.
As a condo owner with an EV, getting a charger installed was only marginally more difficult than if I was freehold. There are already laws in place that require condo boards to respond to charger installation requests and enter an agreement with the owner. I think getting more street parking chargers like they have all over Europe would be a good idea and installing charging bays in all new condo towers should be a requirement for the developer.
A big barrier to EV adoption is also education. I have been asked so many questions about my EV from my neighbours, friends, and families. The dealership wasn’t able to answer like 80% of my questions. I had to do a ton of learning online to understand the features of my car, how it works, how to charge it, when it operates well or poorly etc.
Street chargers would be good. If I recall those laws for requiring condo boards to respond are very recent, and a good start.
You're absolutely right about the lack of education though. I swear half the people I talk to think the only way to charge one is via an 800v fast charger, and the other half assume my range is about 100km in the winter.
People are always shocked about the range, lol. I get about 400km and people always do a double-take at that.
My winter range on a highway with heat on is around 385, which is the sticker value when I bought it.
My summer range is almost 500.
It's a lot more than people think.
Yeah. I think some of the first-gen Leafs or something got some hilarious number like 80km, and lots of people just never updated their belief after that, lol.
In my experience, the dealerships are not very interested in selling EVs. They actively discouraged me from even test driving the model they had on the lot, the last time I needed to buy a replacement vehicle.
Harder still for appartment renters. And there's more of those than there are condo owners.
Same deal, apartments should be mandated to have them too.
I was going to agree with you, but I think after reading your points I actually feel the complete opposite. I think if there's a role for heavy taxation to play it should be on new ICE vehicles, as opposed to on the gas itself. We're talking about new vehicles here, there are millions of perfectly good used vehicles out there that would fill all the roles you're talking about. Increasing gas taxes ends up punishing the people who can least afford it. Like the farmers who have to have to haul their equipment hundreds of kilometers between farms, the condo dwellers who aren't allowed to charge at home, and the renters who can't afford to install an EV charger, let alone buy a new car. The tax should also go towards making EVs more affordable at the low end (it would be nice to subsidize used EVs but I can see many ways to abuse something like that).
We need to get the percentage of new EVs up today so that tomorrow's used market is where we want it to be. We can only do that by encouraging those who can afford a new car to pick an EV, not by punishing those who can't afford a choice.
Are you saying tow trucks shouldn't exist? How about delivery vehicles for those living in remote areas that can only serviced by ice roads or airplanes?
Canada is a vast nation and most of it doesn't have rail services ... which all run on diesel btw. I understand gov'ts should have been upgrading transportation services over the last 3 decades, but they didn't, and we can't do it all overnight to make up for it.
There are regional parts suppliers that have daily/weekly routes that are several hundred kms long. They provide stuff from auto parts, plumbing fittings, and everything in between, often allowing local businesses to get parts quickly without needing to invest in massive warehouses to store larger deliveries or pay extreme delivery fees. These delivery services can be essential to small towns or rural living.
I agree with your points about ridiculous commutes and such, and large cities should defintely be investing in transit and density. Car centric planning is bleeding our cities and our cities are where we should focus improvement.
I don't think it would be detrimental, but try convincing the business owners that, try convincing the parts delivery owners that, try convincing the guy waiting on his furnace parts that 3 weeks an acceptable wait time, have fun firing the delivery driver.
We need a slower solution to transition. Get all those suburban commuters into an EV and let delivery vehicles use gas while we get better battery technology or heavily invest into rail again.
Canada used to harvest ice blocks from the lakes and ship them to tropical climates for ice boxs and whiskey on the rocks. People died on the ice, on the boats and everywhere in between. We have always been a ridiculous society that throws away a lot to cater to a few.
Im all for trains, but i don't see a train stopping to drop off 3 parcels. Unfortunately we atill need road based deliveries unless we want to completely rethink our economy. There is also the factor that quality of life was a lot lower in most rural areas before these services
Do ICE vehicles owners have a gas station at their house? Why are EV's an issue for this but not ICE vehicles? As long as you're near some form of fast charger, you don't need a Level 2 charger at home, though it would be nice.
This is a common misconception. Fast chargers are EXPENSIVE. Even the BC hydro owned fast chargers are 35 cents per kwh for level 3 charging, compared to the 10 cents I pay at home with my time of use rate. Private chargers are even more expensive, sometimes as much as $1 per kwh.
It does not make financial sense to use fast chargers as a primary way to charge your EV, they are really only meant to be used for long distance travel where you're driving 500km+ in a day.
It makes sense that they cost more too, the chargers themselves, the land they use up, and the extra electrical infrastructure to bring in the huge amounts of power they use them all cost money. Just for comparison, a 200 amp house gets around 24kwh of potential throughput, while the latest fast chargers can each draw 350kwh.
It's far easier to just have a spot you can pull into once a week at your condo, and plug it in, then drive off the next morning with a full battery having paid only $6 for another 450km of range.
The other two posters are 100% right, but I'll also chime in and say that fast charging all the time is bad for long-term battery health, too.
Not to mention it's WAY more convenient to just plug your car in when you get home. I remember living in an apartment with no chargers and having to wait for one of the two fast chargers nearby... I'd end up either having to carve out 30 minutes late at night to run out and sneak a charge in, or take a peek out my window every 15 mins to see if one had freed up.
Using fast chargers as Plan A is not a good plan or reasonable expectation.
Because half hour charge times
I am waiting for the exponential increase in gas prices to start.
We have to pay for the carbon we're releasing, it is a market externality, it's going to cost us trillions of dollars. This is what government is for in a capitalist society.
Only if that tax subsidizes EVs.
I'd rather that tax subsidizes trains.
Good point, I like that better.