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submitted 2 months ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

Unless policies or technologies change, the ownership cost of electric vehicles (EVs) needs to decrease by 31 per cent if Canada to wants to reach its sales target of 60 per cent EVs by 2030, according to a new report released Thursday by Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux.

Last December, the federal government unveiled its Electric Vehicle Availability Standard that outlined zero-emission vehicle sales targets for automakers. The standard requires all new light-duty sales in Canada to be electric or plug-in hybrid by 2035. There are also interim targets of at least 20 per cent of all sales being EVs by 2026 and 60 per cent by 2030.

Those federal government targets come as growth forecasts for auto companies have plateaued and concerns about charging infrastructure persist. The price of EVs has also pushed the cars out of reach for many consumers. According to the Canadian Black Book, the average cost of an EV was $73,000 in 2023.

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[-] ted@sh.itjust.works 61 points 2 months ago

Maybe don't put a 100% tarrif on affordable Chinese EVs then?

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 months ago

Hard disagree, we should be reducing our reliance on China, not increasing it.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 months ago

I agree, but we also need to lower our GHG emissions. Since we refuse to improve urban planning or transit, EVs are a step in the right direction.

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[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago

Protecting domestic industries from competing with China does nothing to strengthen it.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 months ago

If China was playing fair and being a good ally, I'd be okay with that. They aren't. Their companies regularly engage in everything from dumping to industrial espionage, not to mention the worker exploitation and abuse, and extending into the government interference both internally and externally.

Protecting ourselves from a single country still allows every other country to compete with us.

[-] msage@programming.dev 3 points 2 months ago

So do American and every other companies.

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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

China or oil? Which do you want to be more dependent on at the moment

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[-] m0darn@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago

It's really telling that Chinese EVs (like imported Teslas) were basically considered fine until the prospect of them being affordable to the middle class arose. That's when we started hearing about labour abuses and fires that only happen with * cheap Chinese* batteries.

It's not like Tesla has a stellar reputation for quality and reliability. They started powerwall as a way to offload bad/ prematurely failing batteries. Don't get me wrong, powerwall is a good idea. But pretending like BYD is going to have terrible batteries and that's why we need tariffs is bad.

China has labour and human rights abuses (eg genocide of Uyghers in Xinjiang [cultural genocide is still genocide]). Imo Canada is doing a better job of reconciling with its history/present of cultural genocide than China is. Canada's TFW program probably results in lots of horrible abuses that we don't hear about, but i think this program may be on its way out too. These issues don't only apply to EVs though.

The only things that're EV specific are lithium batteries and automotive manufacturing.

EV tariffs are protectionism: We want to protect domestic automotive (and para-automotive) manufacturing capabilities, and our investments in EVs/green tech.

I don't think 100% tariffs can be justified on EVs alone.

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[-] nik282000@lemmy.ca 44 points 2 months ago

๐Ÿ‘ stop ๐Ÿ‘ subsidizing ๐Ÿ‘ oil

$18B last year in government support for petrocorps.

[-] CanadianCorhen@lemmy.ca 18 points 2 months ago

i would love for my next car to be an EV

It doesn't need to have 1000km range, or edge to edge touch screens, or anything fancy

Give me something like a subaru impreza, with 300-400km range, and a sunroof.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Give me a Honda fit but electric and make my landlord give me the ability to charge it. Some fancy tech would be nice, but I drive a used economy vehicle for a reason

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[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago

I'm still tempted to do a diy conversion to get specifically what I want and nothing else. I have to get my money's worth out of my bike too though.

[-] CanadianCorhen@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago

i saw someone who moded an olschool subaru brat into an EV. Said he put a... Leaf battery and motor in it. Was really cool to see!

(stock photo)

[-] saigot@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago

The bolt ev and euv is an amazing car I love it and it fits your criteria.

[-] Veritrax@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

The Bolt was discontinued after the 2023 model. But hey you can buy a new EV Chevy Equinox now starting at $55k >_>

[-] saigot@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 months ago
[-] Veritrax@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

This is fantastic. I need a new car but wasn't in as position to buy a Bolt when they were available. I can hang on for another year or so until the new EUV.

[-] eksb@programming.dev 17 points 2 months ago

Sounds like Canada should put a 50% tax on gasoline powered vehicles.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

So, I drive an EV already but here's the rub with just taxing gas powered vehicles.

I still believe some people need (or should use) gas vehicles currently.

The first case is for people who have no access to a charger at their home (primarily condo dwellers, since home owners can easily install them) This should be regulated by the government, every condo should be required to upgrade their parking to include a certain percentage of chargers. We don't need more chargers at random places around the city like we have with gas stations, vehicles should always be charged wherever they happen to sit overnight.

I've had an EV for 3 years now, and I've never once needed a fast charger, I've never driven more than 400km in a single day so overnight level 2 charging is perfectly fine for me, I even used only the standard wall-socket level 1 charger for 4 months when I first got the car. It was do-able but a bit annoying.

The second case is for long distance drivers and/or towing, if you drive more than 2x your battery range in a day as a normal action then EVs just aren't yet sufficient for you. This is common if you need to tow heavy things, because the towing range on EVs is absolute shit so 2x that battery range isn't very far. A ford f150 lightning is fine for hauling your trailer around the suburbs for your yard maintenance business, but if you tow farm equipment a few hundred kilometers a day to different farms, it's not going to work with the current options.

Third, People who already have vehicles. When you replace it, go EV, don't bother until then. If you are a low distance driver, when you go to replace your vehicle, buy a used gas vehicle not a new one. EVs make more sense both financially and environmentally the more use they get.

These issues are all getting sorted out (slowly) but we aren't done with gas vehicles just yet so I'd rather see the taxes on the Gas than on the Vehicle itself.

[-] maxsettings@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 months ago

As a condo owner with an EV, getting a charger installed was only marginally more difficult than if I was freehold. There are already laws in place that require condo boards to respond to charger installation requests and enter an agreement with the owner. I think getting more street parking chargers like they have all over Europe would be a good idea and installing charging bays in all new condo towers should be a requirement for the developer.

A big barrier to EV adoption is also education. I have been asked so many questions about my EV from my neighbours, friends, and families. The dealership wasnโ€™t able to answer like 80% of my questions. I had to do a ton of learning online to understand the features of my car, how it works, how to charge it, when it operates well or poorly etc.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 months ago

Street chargers would be good. If I recall those laws for requiring condo boards to respond are very recent, and a good start.

You're absolutely right about the lack of education though. I swear half the people I talk to think the only way to charge one is via an 800v fast charger, and the other half assume my range is about 100km in the winter.

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[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago

The dealership wasnโ€™t able to answer like 80% of my questions

In my experience, the dealerships are not very interested in selling EVs. They actively discouraged me from even test driving the model they had on the lot, the last time I needed to buy a replacement vehicle.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 months ago

no access to a charger at their home (primarily condo dwellers, since

Harder still for appartment renters. And there's more of those than there are condo owners.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 months ago

Same deal, apartments should be mandated to have them too.

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[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 months ago

I am waiting for the exponential increase in gas prices to start.

We have to pay for the carbon we're releasing, it is a market externality, it's going to cost us trillions of dollars. This is what government is for in a capitalist society.

[-] nik282000@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago

Only if that tax subsidizes EVs.

[-] eksb@programming.dev 7 points 2 months ago

I'd rather that tax subsidizes trains.

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[-] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 months ago

Have we as a country ever met a climate target? In fairness to our politicians (not really), the O&G industry regulates them and not the other way around. Until that power relation changes, our targets are just greenwashing

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[-] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Well, Iโ€™m never buying a Tesla and the same government is determined to withhold choice from us.

[-] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 months ago

Withhold choice? Do you not realize that there are electric vehicles from literally every major brand available today?

I love my Kia Niro EV, going on three years and 80,000km now.

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[-] SamuelRJankis@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Tesla asked Canada to reduce tariffs on its EVs made in China, Reuters source says - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/tesla-canada-china-tariffs-1.7307635

[-] Tai6VohT@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 months ago

It doesn't look like the governments want EVs to replace ICE vehicles as they are today. The density in cities is already limited by parking and road space, and the infrastructure needed to charge all these new EVs isn't really being built.

Keeping EVs in the $60k+ range and the short life-cycle of these vehicles will ensure most people transition to public and active transport, leaving the roads to luxury consumers.

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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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