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Those poor plants (lemmy.world)
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[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 2 months ago

hey vegans, cool fact, plant based diets are vastly more efficient and effective at feeding people than meat based diets.

Meat consumes plants to exist, most of that energy is lost. Not so much with plants.

Just start telling people this shit lmao. Who cares about morality when you can pretend to be saving the environment instead.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

I'm no vegan but that's a common vegan talking point

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

It is, but many vegans also do really unhelpful things that are closer to trying to berate or shame people into not eating meat and it is obviously not effective.

[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

Out of curiosity, how many people have you convinced to go vegan?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

None. Why do I have to convince a single person to criticize an argument I don't think is convincing?

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[-] pyre@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

no arguments there

and it's an interesting one too, if you like production stats at least.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 14 points 2 months ago

You think they don't? And environmentalism is also morality.

environmentalism is morality sure, but doesn't it seem silly to use an appeal to morality to push for more morality.

[-] Soulcreator@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Hey non-vegan, fun fact: No one really cares when you tell them eating plants are more efficient.

Common responses include "bAc0Nnnnnn!" and "I'm gonna eat two times the amount of meat to make your efforts useless".

[-] Soulg@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

Amazing strawman at the end there.

[-] Soulcreator@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Hi friend, I propose you try an experiment: post a small handful of anonymous comments on the Internet, try to make them benign as possible but casually slip in an acknowledgement that you are vegan. Something along the lines of "God that recipe looks amazing, but I think I might swap out the beef broth for veggie broth as I am vegan" like I said the point of this experiment is to say something completely as benign and inoffensive as possible.

Once you post sit back and wait for the responses to roll in. You will likely find that while not every time, it is incredibly common for people to send you pictures of bacon, and an abundant of angry responses to the mere offhand mention of the word.

I sincerely wish it was a straw man fallacy, but it unfortunately is a exceedingly common response to the word.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 month ago

It really isn't. I know plenty of anti-vegans who react in that manner.

hey non vegan vegan fun fact, you would be surprised at the sheer amount of consumption and productive the livestock sector of agriculture creates.

Likewise you could easily just respond to the last line with "you can't take away my gas stove, i'm just going to burn gas lamps in my home now" and get a little bit eepy and sleepy due to all the buildup of combustion products inside your home.

[-] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 7 points 2 months ago

The animal industry feeds the plants as much as the plants feed the animals. I'm not sure how vegans feel about synthetic fertilizer like miracle grow, but that's what will have to be used in place of manure if the meat industry goes away.

Many of the organic crops grown use animal manure to fertilize the plants. I know you can use seaweed and other plants for compost(weeds are already composted back in via tilling, seaweed requires harvesting from the ocean or long distance shipping from farms), as well as cycling crops to prevent nutrient deficiency.....

BUT manure doesn't just add nutrients. It adds beneficial bacteria that helps keep the soil healthy and make the nutrients bioavailable to plants. It conditions the soil for water retention, and helps break up clay soil and add organic matter to sandy soil.

Will vegans keep animals just for manure? Or will organic lables on food be less important? Are we going to start scraping the forests for leaves to chop up an add to farm soil? That can't be good for forests though. I guess I'm just confused about how to maintain large farms without access to large amounts of manure.

[-] skibidi@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

The ideal answer is compost, regenerative agriculture, and (better treated) human-sources waste.

Organic crop yields will almost certainly reduce a bit without animal waste fertilizer, but that is fine since crop consumption will fall by a greater amount due to not needing to feed a bunch of extra animals.

an interesting idea, but anything that decays and "composts" can be used as a fertilizer so.

This includes things like organic scraps, you don't just have to use animal shit. Although it's a pretty good one if you have access to it.

I think personally, we should move to a more decentralized food production system, to help alleviate some of the costs of industrial agriculture, which are pretty heavy.

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 months ago
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[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

but much of the plant matter that animals eat is grazed or waste from some other agricultural product.

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

TBF land clearance for grazing land is a catastrophic issue for the environment and going on in places like the Amazon rainforest.

Some ecosystems are naturally evolved to supporting grazing species like the grasslands of North America which was once home to millions of Buffallo but that's not true of most land currently used for grazing.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago

land clearance for grazing land is a catastrophic issue for the environment and going on in places like the Amazon rainforest.

absolutely. I have some ideas about what to do about it, but none of them involve buying beans

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

It's at a point where I'm all for a UN resolution to end land clearance in locations like the Amazon Rainforest, to be enforced by lethal means if necessary.

Billions of lives may depend on securing such important ecosystems.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago

I don't have any influence with the un.

[-] Cypher@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Haha not saying you do but it’s what I would like to see happen

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[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 2 months ago

that can be true, but we also grow a substantial amount of feed for agriculture usage, even if it's not local to us. A lot of alf alfa being grown is exported.

It's all dependent on whatevers cheapest at the end of the day. And regardless of this fact, a lot of energy is still lost in this process, cows are a significant contributor to climate change, ironically.

[-] LengAwaits@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

There was a good discussion of this on Reddit recently. Sorry to link to Reddit, but it's a good, topical post worth perusal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Agriculture/comments/1dv7fw9/how_much_good_land_is_used_to_grow_food_for/

ETA:

We recommend four widely applicable high-impact (i.e. low emissions) actions with the potential to contribute to systemic change and substantially reduce annual personal emissions: having one fewer child (an average for developed countries of 58.6 tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year), living car-free (2.4 tCO2e saved per year), avoiding airplane travel (1.6 tCO2e saved per roundtrip transatlantic flight) and eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year). These actions have much greater potential to reduce emissions than commonly promoted strategies like comprehensive recycling (four times less effective than a plant-based diet) or changing household lightbulbs (eight times less).

^https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541/pdf^

[-] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago

yeah that pretty much checks out. The best solution to climate change is to kill shit like private jets and yachts. But that's unlikely to happen.

[-] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The best solution to climate change is to kill shit like private jets and yachts.

I severely doubt those emissions are anything but negligible because there are so few yachts and jets.

Edit: Yeah, just downvoting is cheap, so here's just a single statistic for you: https://ourworldindata.org/global-aviation-emissions

Total aviation is responsible for about 2.5% of worldwide carbon emissions. That's all air travel, private jets included. While it's obviously very popular to focus on the luxuries of the rich, it just won't be effective to focus on those when fighting climate change, let alone being a solution as you claimed.

[-] BallsandBayonets@lemmings.world 2 points 2 months ago

What's an easier solution, in your opinion? Getting the ultra wealthy to give up their yachts and jets (by getting rid of the ultra wealthy entirely, which also addresses the evils of capitalism), or convincing hundreds of millions of people to change just about everything about the diet they've been eating for tens of thousands of years?

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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
687 points (83.3% liked)

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