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this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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"The Ocean Cleanup" is a great effort and I support their mission wholeheartedly. BUT looking at the bigger picture; it seems completely asinine to fish garbage put of the ocean and call that the solution to pollution, instead of preventing it from getting there in the first place. This is not meant as a criticism of "The Ocean Cleanup", but of global society in general. One minute you see them removing the Pacific garbage patch and the next you see whole rivers covered in plastic waste flowing out into the ocean from certain countries.
Edit: Fishing it out of the rivers before it enters the ocean is also a good effort. But it doesn't address the underlying problem any better than cleaning ot out of the ocean. Also; some people seem to think I'm bashing "The Ocean Cleanup" and similar organisations. I'm very much not. They do great, necessary work. I'm just frustrated that said work is needed, and more importantly; that it doesn't seem to be on track to stop being needed anytime in the near-ish future.
They are doing similar tryouts in Big Rivers now too. But that's a lot harder than cleaning what's already stagnant.
The sheer force of the water and waste is difficult to hold in place with nets. But they're definitely working on it.
I trust programs like this and admire the work. It's a good thing for life in general to get rid of that shit. It's just abysmal that companies still use so much plastic for everything.
No doubt it's good work, but the plastic shouldn't get in there in the first place. That was my only point.
it shouldn’t, but realistically it will and given that it’s good to be able to clean it up
Earth will survive and heal
Climate is a thing where no matter how big your solution is, it's only part of a larger solution-cluster.
We need it all, and then the rest of it, too.
Which is why they're working on exactly that
Same issue though; it shouldn't end up in the rivers either. The rivers were just an example in relation to the ocean patches specifically. Plastics shouldn't end up in the environment at all. Catching it a step earlier, is still treating the symptom instead of the cause.
Except they're not calling it the solution, just a remedy to a literally growing problem. Even if people stopped polluting the ocean in an instant, you'd still have to clean up the patch. Now, they're taking the initiative to go clean it up as best they can, which is a heck of a lot more than the average person lemme tell ya that much.
The majority of the great Pacific garbage patch material - over 75% of it - comes from fishing and aquaculture activities. I'm sure some of it is accidents or storm related, but I also have a strong suspicion that a good percentage of it is from China's ghost fishing fleets - the ones they deny exist, that over-fish and poach other countries' waters, and that cut loose their nets and pretend innocence it approached.
Even if all pollution stopped today we still have to clean up the patch.
Yes. That is why I said that I support them.
Who said it was a solution?
No one specifically, but in a lot of cases it feels like certain interest groups, tout projects like this as the be all and end all of solving the issue. I just fear for a sentiment where people go: "Look at what "The Ocean Cleanup" is doing! We don't need to abolish single use plastics. Any that end up in the environment is simply picked up!" That is of course a bit of a caricature, but at this point my trust in humanity as a whole, is not very high...
The kind of people who care about plastic at all don't seem the type to say "oh well we can clean it up go wild boys"
No of course not. It's the people who have an interest in keeping plastic around, who I fear might use an excuse like that.
People who don't care about plastic pollution aren't really the audience of efforts to combat it.
Or one could view it as regardless of efforts at future prevention, we still need to pick up from the past. If we stopped every scrap of plastic in production today that pile of junk would still be floating about for the next millennia.
It's important to celebrate the wins that we have in order to build some tailwind behind the general effort.
We should still recognize how far we have to go, of course, but celebration matters.
They are working on exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdKoIjdgSE
Yeah. All product packaging should be paper based.
Where do they say anything like that? I've been following them very closely for years and they've always been super transparent that there isn't one solution. They also do a lot of work to prevent trash from getting to the ocean in the first place.
your reply is classic
How in the heck do you mean? I'm happy for the accomplishment. It's excellent work. I'm just angry that said work is necessary in the first place.
I would not have had the opinion that you are happy about the solution. Your reply is basically "not appreciate a larger situation, problem, etc., because one is considering only a few parts of it" (the origin). We cannot fix the reason the problem is there. IT IS. Fixing the problem is the only reality and now that is within reach. Complaining about the origin is missing the point.
If I can add to the discussion here. Problem is the the solution isn't a solution. Heck the headline is a lie because the first sentence is "If the project raises 7.5 billion dollars". The article makes people feel like the problem is solved already but it's not. And to say that we cannot fix the origin of the problem is just not true. To think so is to actually miss the point of the project which is that monumental problems CAN be solved, but cleaning the patch isn't done and it won't be the end of the challenge.
We will not be able to go back in time and stop all the plastic from being created. We can't stop the motion of the ocean that puts it together in the current configuration.
We can't stop the human activity that causes plastic to end up in the ocean.
We can't stop the production of plastic.
We can't demand that governments force their population to behave in specific ways.
The issue is what it is. We can only deal with the situation as it is. The article details a plan and a possible conclusion in 10 years if everything works out. That doesn't make me feel like it's solved.
We cannot fix the fact that the patch is there no. But we most certainly can fix continuing supply of garbage to it. That is exactly the argument I put forth in a different reply. "Oh well; we can just fish out the garbage, so we don't need to fix the underlying issue of single use plastics." Complaining about the origin of the pollution is very much not missing the point.
I very much doubt the goal of an organisation like "The Ocean Cleanup" is to get to pick up garbage in perpetuity. I would very much hope, that its end goal is to outlive its own usefulness.
There are similar groups with near identical solutions for tackling "problem" River that are some of the worst offenders of plastic pollution.
Ultimately there is still a problem in the ocean, and to some extent, it is inevitable until we have a realistic solution for plastics.
There are groups working to cleanup river plastic before it becomes ocean plastic.
It shouldn't be river plastic either though. That's just pushing the problem back a step instead of solving it outright. It's a step in the right direction, but it shouldn't end up in the rivers either...
You're not wrong.
There will always be the lost who care not for fellow man. I can only hope those that do care, outnumber those who don't.
Be kind to one another
Also, what are we gonna do with the trash? Moving it isn't gonna magically make it disappear lol
Put it in the bin!
True AND what do they do with the garbage they pull out of the ocean? Place it in a landfill?