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please god this would be so fucking funny
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this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2024
187 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
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We don't accept "neither washington nor beijing" here; so I'm having a really hard time understanding how "neither moscow nor kiev" got as much traction as it did here tbh
Lack of a party line and the occasional bout of liberal brainworms are to be expected given that this is a english language leftist shitposting site and not a serious org.
Fair point to raise, it's just a particularly irksome contradiction to me. Like, that's one of those that consistency feels like it should be really easy to manage considering those two concepts, even regarding a gaggle of shitposters.
Inside you there are two wolves.
One wants a larger community to shitpost in.
One is really fucking annoyed by he/hims badposting.
You are on hexbear.
mood. It's always the he/hims isn't it (not that I haven't run into plenty of non-masc people with the same brainworms)
It's not nice that I discuss your nationality and gender (well, that bit was brought up by others), but when combined with your biases they are very telling. Even the (presumably Ukranian) that you've been chatting with had to hard disagree with you on the whole "I'm neutral because both sides suck" and "90% Hitler vs 99% Hitler" comparison.
And the only reason why you can think that a nation like Russia is "90% Hitler"- is genuinely because of your privilege or bias (which is not necessarily tied to nationality and definitely not gender in the case of geopolitics, but certainly has some correlation with the former). The only reason why you can wash your hands of the issue (despite recognizing which nation is the true aggressor, and which is acting to ensure its survival) is because you have no stake in the game and have not had comparable experiences, nor learnt appropriate empathy as such (and unlike "smol bean" victims like the Palestinians who can barely resist, or the AES nations which you can easily agree with, supporting Russia is inconvenient to you).
Russia isn't an imperialist nation, and despite your misgivings, by its actions alone it is if anything an anti-imperialist nation, not just in Europe but across the world (and it has been in varying degrees so for a long time, even after the collapse of the Soviet Union- despite the fact they tried to join NATO). Today Russia is actively working to create an anti-imperialist, multipolar, genuinely democratic world order among nations with the rest of the BRICS, and it is actively assisting in the development of the global south as well as their security from western destabilization, from the MENA region to the Sahel or the Caribbean, etc... apart from social issues which are valid (but not remotely comparable in the context given and you know it) criticisms, you have nothing to pin on Russia, save for fearmongering that Russia could in time develop to be like the west (because even as a capitalist state it is not remotely akin to the west and their imperialist world order), despite the fact that Russia's actions are if anything as counterproductive as it could get to developing a worldwide imperialist system like that which the west has established, and that Russia neither has the means, nor the present desire to pursue such a path.
And even if I'm not to point at your gender, admittedly there's no way in hell I won't point out nationality (as someone living in a western country myself, but who also has family elsewhere/was born elsewhere, is not white, etc) in this regard- Russia is NOT guilty of what the white, western imperialist order is actively engaging in as we speak. It is NOT comparable. I'm bringing up your nationality in this regard because the bias is literally that obvious, and it comes from exactly that point. It sucks to hear it, but as someone from a NATO country as well- WE ARE THE BADDIES. Russia is not remotely comparable. It's not a struggle between "90% Hitler and 99% Hitler," at most it's akin to the struggle between, say, the reactionary and non-socialist governments of Poland, Yugoslavia, Greece, etc. vs. the Axis, with the difference being that this time around Russia can properly and fully fend for themselves, thankfully. It's not even the struggle between "genocidal empires Britain/France/USA vs. the Axis," it's "the empire (NATO/the collective west) vs. the rest." There is literally no comparison and I think you and the entire west needs to learn that.
I've read a response from comrade @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net, and it's making me think. I'll reconsider the 90% Hitler vs 99% Hitler, and the possibility of critical support to Russia in the context of BRICS in a multipolar world. I still won't defend people who enlist themselves to fight in the Russian army, and I definitely won't call that based, but as the mentioned comrade has pointed out, there's likely biases that western leftists commit because of their situation.
I suggest you consider treating fellow leftists with respect, though, as the aforementioned comrade did, instead of using dismissive tone, discussing their nationality and gender with other comrades openly, and calling them "eurolibs" and speculating about their position on Spanish genocides in America. Hexbear is supposed to be a leftist safe space, where we're all here to discuss and learn, and not to diss and dunk on each other.
Glad you're reconsidering, if nothing else, and realizing you're likely still engaging in even more biases yet.
Past that though- I don't think I offered you any less respect than you did me, not that either of us resorted to shit-flinging. You responded to diss/dunk, and I responded in turn, admittedly I shouldn't have fed that fire as neither of us were being nasty about it IMO. Other than the discussion on gender though, I feel I called it as I saw it, and I wasn't attacking you nor "speculating on your position on the Spanish genocides" or "connecting you with the Spanish empire," and I don't think my words could have been reasonably taken as such when taken in their context. I was simply pointing to the bias which I felt was present (and which I'd point out again), which was/is about as western as it gets, the assumptions/extrapolations of what I meant were on your end.
As for that- what exactly is it they do that you consider "not based?" Think about it. The Russian nation has a living memory of fascist genocidal aggression, and while Russia may no longer be socialist, I don't think it would be inaccurate to call this an echo of the Great Patriotic War. Look at the atrocities and institutionalized discrimination suffered by the ethnic Russians and other minorities in Ukraine for a decade, or the terror still being inflicted- and documented- upon civilians since the Kursk invasion, and I don't see how it could be called anything but based (and I am not ethnic Russian, nor in any way related to the Russian state- though I feel much of the world which has had similar experiences of persecution and anti-imperialist struggle could and would agree). Meanwhile, what does the Russian army do, exactly? By-and-large I would call it a force for good (Syria, the western Sahel states, etc) and where it is not, it is at least not a force for malice (hell, look at how they treated the Chechens, who today have semi-autonomy- even if that may result in policies that you and I alike might not agree with, it is their internal issue to deal with- and who have been returned to the fold in a manner unthinkable in the west). And the entire world outside the west can see not only the infinite difference between Russia's (or any of the BRICS') foreign policy and that of the west- but the infinite difference between Russia's methods of waging war, compared to those of the west. From Serbia to Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc... (not to mention the countless cold war era wars) if Russia had been engaging according to NATO doctrines, I can tell you that Ukrainians would already be freezing, food-insecure if not starving, with much of their vital infrastructure destroyed, and with no small amount of neverending "collateral damage" of civilians. The Russian army is not anything remotely akin to that of anything in the west, and it is better for it, and in the context of defending their nation from imperialist aggression I would call it based, just as I'd call someone fighting for any of the other highly flawed states I mentioned in resistance to imperialism.
Misandry does not exist. Men do not need safe spaces, the rest of humanity needs safe spaces where we're free from men. If you can't stand being in a space where patriarchal BS gets called out appropriately, if you aren't able to critically engage with your own role in gendered power structures, you need to self-crit and weed out the reactionary sentiments you have internalized. Simple as. "Booohooohooo i didn't choose to be born as an opressor, do not discriminate me, we're all the same" is purest liberalism. We are not the same. Society doesn't treat you and me the same way, men treat me differently than people of other genders treat me. If we want to remedy that, we cannot pretend that these differences do not exist. We cannot gloss over the shit that men put women and nonbinary people through unless we want to reproduce and maintain these wrongs.
Misandry doesn't exist. That doesn't mean it's nice to talk about my gender with other users, it simply doesn't feel nice, and I requested the user not to do it. At no point did I claim misandry exists, or that we're all the same, I just would feel better in this space if third users didn't openly comment on my gender among themselves on conversations about geopolitics. I understand that we're all trying to make an effort to prevent misogyny in the platform, and if I'm wrong about what I'm saying, I'll shut up. I just wanted to say it doesn't feel great.
Regarding patriarchal bullshit being called out, if you could point what part of my previous comments before my gender was pointed out was patriarchal, I would gladly take the criticism.
How on Earth are you comparing the Beijing government and economic system to the Moscow one? They have nothing in common other than being geopolitical enemies of the USA.
How on Earth are you comparing the Moscow government and economic system to the USA/NATO one? They have nothing in common other than their internal economic structure.
It's the principle of the thing, not a memberwise comparison; but I get the sense that you're going to deliberately look past that point to keep arguing, so I'm disengaging from this. I genuinely don't have the patience to argue this with you when you're picking bits and pieces out of my point to cobble your own interpretation of what I said.
I'm tryna not crash out today, dammit.